Wednesday, Nov. 10, 2004 | 11:17 a.m.
The wars in Iraq and Vietnam are strikingly different and yet, in many ways, similar, local veterans of both wars say.
In some cases, however, they disagree over just what are the similarities and what are the differences.
For example, Las Vegan Larry Bauer, an Army Special Forces veteran of the Vietnam War, says one difference is that Vietnam was fought in thick jungles while the Iraqi War was fought in the open desert, making it less of a headache to find and fight the enemy.
But Henderson resident Brook Stanford, a Marine Iraqi War veteran, disagrees, calling it a similarity because "fighting in the urban warfare of Baghdad was like fighting in a jungle. They fired from buildings all around us."
Stanford, 26, says he believes one of the biggest differences in the two wars is that the Iraqi war had a clear objective, while the mission in Vietnam never was clear.
Bauer, 80, also a veteran of World War II and Korea, disagrees. He says that's a similarity because objectives in both wars were well defined: "They were: Capture Baghdad in Iraq and support the South Vietnamese government in Vietnam. The only difference was that one objective was not achieved."
Bauer and Stanford will be among the Vietnam and Iraqi war veterans who will be honored Thursday at the Veterans Day ceremonies at the Gobel-Lowden Veterans Museum, 3333 Cambridge Street, near Desert Inn Road and Maryland Parkway.
Ed Gobel, longtime director of the museum and president of the Council of Nevada Veterans Organizations, said the purpose of honoring the two diverse groups is to pay respect to veterans of a much maligned war and to avoid disrespecting a new crop of veterans -- especially if the United States eventually has to pull out of Iraq without achieving all of its objectives. Bauer, the grandfather of a sailor who is serving in th Iraqi War, said he sees enough similarities in the Vietnam and Iraqi wars to concern him about the potential for the same mistakes being repeated.
"I don't think this (Iraq) was a good war, nor was Vietnam nor, to some extent, Korea," the retired master sergeant said. "They were not good causes like World War II was."
Stanford, who was in the military from 1996 until April, echoes that sentiment.
"The war in Iraq is more political than about us liberating Iraq," said Stanford, now a UNLV student who tends bar at the Fix restaurant at the Bellagio.
"A number of us feel we went in under false pretenses that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that they would use against us. And while we found depots with some stockpiles of weapons, there were no weapons of mass destruction. But when you sign that contract (to join the service) you just do your job."
Both men agreed that differences in the way they were treated when they came home may be perhaps the biggest difference in the wars.
"The Vietnam veteran came home to people calling them baby killers and spitting on them, while the reception I received was warm with American flags waving and bands playing," Stanford said. "It definitely was wrong the way the Vietnam veteran was treated. He was only doing his job."
Gobel, a Vietnam veteran, said his concerns are that the exit strategies of both wars are frighteningly similar.
"Our mission was to train the ARVN (Army of the Reublic of Vietnam), and we used to say that the weapons we gave them were brand new, dropped only once (as they fled)," Gobel said. "Now our soldiers are retraining the new Army of Iraq much the same way."
Stanford, a corporal who did not engage in training Iraqi military that is loyal to the new regime but did observe it, said: "We were selective, choosing those who had a good attitude and were clean cut and intelligent.
"But really, what other exit strategy is there but for us to train the soldiers of a country and hope for the best? We can't be there forever to wipe their noses."
Bauer says a problem that existed in Vietnam is being repeated today.
"We are not taking into consideration their culture or education levels," he said. "Unlike our troops, they have never been trained to think on their own. We have to train them at their level of education and military knowledge if they are going to succeed in defending their country when we leave."
Other war veterans say they, too, see interesting similarities and differences in the two wars.
"We got out of Vietnam because we lost, and we lost because our military leaders did not do what they had to do to win that war," said Bob Garlow, a Vietnam veteran and commander of VFW Post 36 in Boulder City.
"I think we learned from that situation, and today we are going wherever we have to and doing whatever we have to in Iraq to win this war."
Jerry Adams, a Vietnam Veteran and commander of VFW Post 1753 in Las Vegas, said in both wars "the enemy was an elusive one that hit and ran."
"Sadly one similarity is that our soldiers now and then were not given the proper equipment from the military. Our post gets a number of requests from soldiers for flea collars, which they wear around their boots to keep out fleas, and simple things like toiletries and shampoo."
Adams said that unlike in Vietnam where regular troops were sent over with definite terms of combat service predetermined, U.S. reservists are sent to Iraq with little or no idea when they will be coming home.
"Not being able to earn (rotation) points and not getting some projected date to go home has got to be hurting morale in Iraq," Adams said. "A soldier needs that light at the end of the tunnel that they will soon go home."
Bauer echoed that sentiment, recalling the year 1973 when he left the service after 31 years.
"Becoming a veteran for me meant that it was finally over," said Bauer, an American Indian who on D-Day served on a transport with 48 other American Indian soldiers, 41 of whom were killed in that amphibious attack.
"I may have been wounded, but I survived. Each day I wake up now I am so happy that I am being given one more free ride."
After surviving three wars, Bauer now is fighting cancer for which he undergoes chemotherapy.
Brook, reflecting on what will be his first Veterans Day as a veteran, says his military experience, despite its pitfalls, gave him a great sense of pride.
"I'm happy to have served my country and, in some way, defend it," he said. "I am glad that when I was called upon I completed my mission and came home. I'm proud to be an American and I'm proud to be a veteran."
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