Where I Stand — Joe Williams: Jazz remains too powerful to be limited by music labels

Saturday, Aug. 1, 1998 | 4:25 a.m.

YEARS AGO when people referred to jazz, it meant that they were going out to hear some black music. Some people denied that it existed and didn't want to get their kids involved in it. There were social connotations. So when Stan Kenton or Benny Goodman came along, we called it swing.

Duke Ellington once said that the big problem faced by musicians is that art is in the hands of salesmen. Marketing is the name of the game, and that has resulted in categories that they could sell. All these terms, such as jazz or swing or bop, are not recognized by performers. What we do is sing and play music, and people are moved.

What we play is improvisational music that is generally based in the blues. Ellington always said that no matter what he did, he was doing something tricky with the blues. From the very beginning, I found that the music we did touched people. At dances they would hold each other in their arms, relate to the song, and from the song relate to the singer and the orchestra. It was a conversation between the dancers and the performers.

The swing that the kids are dancing to today was there all the time. The kids just woke up to it. The music is there for anybody who wants it. I don't know why it's all happening now other than the fact that art is in the hands of salesmen, and they found another thing they could sell.

It doesn't matter what they call the music; a certain group of people is going to gravitate to it. They could put up a sign that says "jazz tonight" and it won't draw two flies. What you must build are attractions. You build attractions by using the name of performers. Frank Sinatra sang with jazz bands, Tommy Dorsey and Harry James, but they didn't call it jazz because they were selling and building Frank Sinatra.

There's a certain group of people who will fly from coast to coast to hear certain attractions. Someone will say, "Sarah Vaughan is singing with the Basie Orchestra at the Wilshire Theatre in Los Angeles and Joe Williams is with them, too." There would be a line out on the street every night, but nothing was said about jazz. They said they came for Sarah Vaughan, Joe Williams and the Count Basie Orchestra. Jazz is just a label.

I never did what I do for popularity. I often said that popularity, or even money, was a byproduct of a search for excellence. If you can't relate, who are you reaching? I think the music is going to reach the people it should reach. The truth about the music is that it's sophisticated. It was never meant to be popular in terms of the money it generated. Commercialism is not its goal.

Sometimes, of course, an artist can be misunderstood. I remember one time listening to John Coltrane. He was playing "My Favorite Things," and I could hear babies crying and mothers weeping. He was painting a picture and meanwhile, in the middle of it all, he was desperately trying to be in harmony with himself. I listened and listened and listened and said to myself, "I think I heard total 'Trane tonight." Someone went to Miles Davis once and said, "I don't understand what 'Trane is playing." So Miles said in a droll manner, " 'Trane had been working on that thing for 25 years, and if you can understand it in five minutes, he ain't doing nothing."

I think music reflects life. I did a tune written by Tom McIntosh called "Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow," and it is very socially relevant. The words are: "Yesterday a man killed my brother, today I killed a man, tomorrow his brother will have to kill me, what does it all mean to eternity?" You know, who is our enemy? The songs we did back in the 1960s, like that one, are still cogent now.

The music is talking about harmony. The music is the mainstream of life. It's constant. It's like breathing. It's a gift from God. What we do with this gift, if we come out hating or come out loving, the music will reflect that. It's like water running through a valley -- anybody who wants it can go and have some. The music will always be there.

Back in the 1950s Basie was talking on the radio about rock 'n' roll, and he said at least that music started kids dancing again. But I said then and I still believe that the kids will get tired of what they're listening to, and they will come to embrace the kind of music we are doing. As they get older, their taste will change, and they'll see some depth in what we're doing.

Jazz will survive even if schools cut funding for music. This music has survived slavery and no money at all. You can't squelch the human spirit.