Growth debate: A blow-by-blow account

Saturday, Aug. 23, 1997 | 3:30 a.m.

Paying for growth

Gates: When people complain about growth, what they're complaining about is the fact that they're stuck in traffic, and schools are overcrowded and they're on double sessions. And there are problems with the air in terms of all of the building that's going on and all of the dust that's in the air. That's the problem that people have. Because growth is jobs. And when you say that no one is doing anything about growth, in essence what you're saying is that there are too many jobs being created in this community and maybe we need to stop the jobs -- because that's all growth is.

Question: Do you think we're growing too fast in this community?

Gates: To be real honest with you, we have been growing at the same level of rate -- 6 or 7 percent -- constantly for 10 years. It didn't happen when I became a county commissioner. Our problem is trying to build and keep up with the infrastructure to maintain and sustain the growth that we're experiencing. And if we had the wherewithal in terms of revenue base to take care of the infrastructure that's needed, you wouldn't hear as many complaints that you hear from people. Because once you stop growth -- which is jobs -- then it's going to have an economic impact on this valley.

Titus: I agree with Yvonne that growth makes jobs. Nobody wants to cut off growth. The problem is the management of growth and having the infrastructure keep up with the growth just as Yvonne said. But Yvonne said she wants some more ways to raise revenue. I'm curious about that. You want to raise taxes here? And what kind of taxes are you talking about?

Gates: I didn't say taxes, I said revenue.

Titus: OK, revenue.

Atkinson Gates: OK, for instance the things that were suggested and came out of what the Legislature approved with schools. That's a classic example. That kind of revenue. Support of the sales tax revenue.

Titus: OK.

Gates: But the commission hasn't taken a vote on it yet. The commission has not taken a position one way or another if they're going to impose it or if they're going to send it to a vote of the people. That decision hasn't been made yet. Anywhere between 90 days or prior to that a decision is going to be made. We just have not been able to do the things in terms of addressing the whole issue of infrastructure. Every time we have to go to the Legislature and ask their permission to raise revenues to help support that, we can't do it because oftentimes they have their ideas, and you're entitled to have your ideas.

Titus: I don't recall you coming and asking for any money. Give me an example of when you came to the Legislature and asked for revenues and you didn't get it. Just give me an example. I've been there since '88. Just give me an example.

Gates: I haven't been there ...

Titus: Well, how long have you been on the County Commission?

Gates: I've only been on the County Commission four years.

Titus: Well, give me an example in four years.

Gates: As I was saying, the whole issue of the quarter-percent sales tax is a classic example. I put forth a bill to help deal with the whole school issue and also what was approved by the state Legislature this session to deal with schools. The County Commission, I would say probably by December, will be coming out with a package on how we intend to take care of the other infrastructure portions that we have to deal with on a daily basis. That includes parks, roads, fire stations, more police substations and other county facilities.

Question: Where's the money going to come from?

Gates: Staff is working on it right now.

Titus: And you can do that without coming to the Legislature?

Gates: Yeah.

Titus: Well, OK, so if you don't have to come to us for ...

Gates: No, Dina, no. Let me make sure this is perfectly understood. There are things that we can do that we have control over that we don't have to come to the Legislature to ask permission for.

Titus: And that includes parks, roads ...

Gates: Hold on. I'll repeat it for you again. Please, don't put words in my mouth.

Titus: No, no, I wouldn't do that.

Gates: What I said is, is that the County Commission is putting together a comprehensive package on how we can deal with the things that we are more responsible for, which includes funding it for a long period of time if we can continue to generate the kind of revenue that we're generating using existing taxes. Not to say that we can take care of all of it, but doing our share to try to take care of some of the things that we have a little more control over. Because we're not going to be able to provide probably enough revenue to build as many fire stations for the next 20 years using the existing revenue. Probably, most likely, we'll have to go back out for a bond issue for more fire. Police is another heavy expensive cost that we do not have enough revenue to support for another 20 years, but these are key things that we can go to the voters and ask for their support ...

Titus: I haven't gotten two words in here, but go ahead ...

Gates: There are revenues that we have in our coffers that staff is looking at that probably will be able to take care of some of these critical elements that we think are important.

Titus: But if the county has the money to deal with these problems, then why haven't you been dealing with them? I think that's a critical question. I'm glad to hear this that you've got all this money that you can deal with this.

Gates: Dina, what I said was staff was doing an analysis to see so that we could bring the proposal back to the commission so that they could vote on it and take some of the critical things that we think are important and not have to go to the voters and ask them for a tax increase.

Titus: You just said you could go to the voters, Yvonne. Don't say I'm putting words in your mouth. You're contradicting yourself. That's part of the problem.

Gates: No, Dina, what I said was there's certain things that we can take care of but probably not for a long period of time. Because some of this stuff is so expensive that we probably won't have all the revenue to take care of it for a long period of time. So there are things that we probably will have to come back and ask the voters for, but when staff finishes doing their analysis, I'm sure, and I'm hoping, that there is enough revenue to take care of at least some of those things for at least a certain period of time. To make sure that we're able to accommodate the growth of the people that are out there. That's all.

Titus: I'll wait and see what that plan is to see if we need for the Legislature to step in.

Zone variances

Titus: How about the County Commission taking a pledge not to violate the master plan? You got this great plan? All right, pledge that you're not going to violate it without a vote of the people. That's where the problem comes in. You can have the greatest plans in the world, but if every time some kind of variance is requested you grant it, what's the point of having the plan? What was this big thing lately with (Commissioner) Erin Kenny where you violated the master plan in eight ways over here with those condominiums? Big story in the paper last week. You're on the commission, Yvonne, so you must know what I'm talking about.

Gates: Let me give you a classic example of a variance. A classic example of a variance is if a person comes in and we approve a project and that project requires them to build a fence ...

Titus: That's not what I'm talking about...

Gates: But that's a good example.

Titus: The master plans do not include things about height variances for fences, Yvonne. You know what I'm talking about. I'm talking about land ...

Gates: That's not true. Our variances -- if a person says, "I want to raise a fence" -- give me an example of where we violated those kinds of things.

Titus: I just gave you an example where Erin Kenny ... violated it eight times. It was just in the paper last week -- something in Paradise Valley -- where they now let apartments in instead of condominiums. Everybody came out protesting, and you postponed the decision.

Gates: That is not true. We didn't do any variances.

Titus: Where is Rhodes Ranch located in terms of one of your community developments? Isn't it outside the line, and that's why you had to do a development agreement with ...

Gates: It is outside of where the infrastructure is but ...

Titus: It is against your master plan. It is that community development line that you're always bragging about.

Gates: Dina, no it isn't.

Titus: Is it within the community development line?

Gates: Please, Dina, I deal with this stuff every day.

Titus: I know, I'm waiting for an answer.

Gates: If you would stop interrupting me.

Titus: You're doing all the talking, Yvonne.

Gates: A part of our policy that we have and have had in place for a long, long period of time, before I became a county commissioner, is give them the development that is outside of our (community district) line. We will consider allowing a developer to come in and develop, but you have to go through this long process in order to do it. It's going to cost you very dearly. You're going to have to pay for infrastructures that are not there because it is unfair. It is definitely unfair for people who live in developed areas to come in and develop. We review our lines every two to three years to determine if there is a need because we have used up a lot of land -- and, OK, people have developed -- that we will say allow us to go beyond what our existing line is and go into another area. But if you're not in that area, it's going to cost you. That is a part of our policy. That is not a violation of our master plan. If it was a violation, we wouldn't be doing it.

Titus: Does that require any kind of zoning change for those people to get Rhodes Ranch into that area that's not in the master plan?

Gates: It's not master planned.

Titus: It's rural. Master-planned rural.

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