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Published Monday, Aug. 9, 2010 | 2:59 p.m.
Updated Monday, Aug. 9, 2010 | 3:15 p.m.
GOP Senate nominee Sharron Angle, during a media availability earlier Monday, argued "certainly someone who has not come here under the rule of law is not under our jurisdiction," aligning herself with prominent Republicans who have agitated for Capitol Hill action on what she and others call "the anchor baby issue."
"I think Congress needs to become involved," Angle said at her campaign headquarters during a 15-minute Q and A with a handful of journalists.
Angle said she consulted on the issue with John Eastman, a constitutional law expert she has used since 2003, when he advised her on that federal lawsuit against the then-largest tax increase in history. (She has consistently implied the issue went to the U.S. Supreme Court, but it never was heard there.)
When asked about the DREAM Act, Angle said she is "skeptical of Democrtaic proposals because generally cloaked within those proposals is amnesty ... The rule of law should apply equally to every part of our society."
Angle also told the media, "We want to stick to the issues; that's why I'm glad you're here. I made some comments about making friends with the press and really talking about the issues that really matter to Nevadans." And the ones that really matter to her in gaining political advantage, too — as she put it earlier, "The economy. The economy. The economy."
Angle also was asked about Reid's "war is lost" remark, which came up over the weekend after news reports showed some revisionist history by the Reid campaign. "I think certainly Harry Reid demoralized the troops by saying the war is lost," she said. "He has given the military deep concerns with his support for them."
Angle spoke to the media after a rah-rah speech to some volunteers assembled in a courtyard adjacent to her headquarters on the west side of the Las Vegas Valley. Angle said the campaign will be "moving forward with other messages," and added, "We welcome the discussion on Social Security."
She would later downplay the trustees saying last week that benefits could still be paid until 2037 and focused on the 2010 news that the red ink was starting to flow. Even though most analysts agree that either payroll tax increases or benefit cuts will be needed to solve the problem — hence the lack of action — she suggested pouring unused stimulus money and repaid TARP funds to help replace what she calls the IOUs currently there. Really?
And she painted quite the picture of Reid on the economy and the stimulus promises, saying, "This man knows no bounds when he's spreading fear."
Sounds like a scary man.
FACT: No one stands up for our military & vets like Sen. Reid, Sharron Angle would kill the Department of Vet. Affairs http://bit.ly/dr5hxd
Just too extreme. Her brand of politics sells well in the rural south and some parts of rural Idaho, where people live in cabins and get their news once a month or so when they go into town, but I'm really hopin' Nevada has progressed far enough not to elect someone like her to represent us in the US Senate. THE U.S. Senate people! We get two-(2) representatives and you want her to be one of them??? Really???
Comment removed by moderator. Name calling.
Comment removed by moderator. Name calling.
What was Sen. Ensign doing when Sen. Reid was destroying Nevada's economy? Applying ointment?
Ammnesty..you can bet deeply hidden in the agenda is AMMNESTY ! Look at the bail out program..Instead of putting all the money directly to where the "Bail out" would help everyone, written in the paperwork - deep down, was millions of BS going towards stuff that wasn't even CLOSELY related to the bail out..That's why all the money hasnt' been released and never will - it went else where..
prove it gbigs
If this says immigration law shall be enforced i am all for it.
http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_Am1...
Comment removed by moderator. Language.
Can you believe how Senator Reid Voted on Illegal Immigration: doe's this sound like a Man who cares about his country?
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
Voted NO on protecting middle-income taxpayers from a national energy tax. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program. (May 2007)
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities". (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (Jun 2008)
Voted NO on requiring full Senate debate and vote on cap-and-trade. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on $2 billion more for Cash for Clunkers program. (Aug 2009)
Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
Voted YES on Congressional pay raise. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on requiring photo ID to vote in federal elections. (Jul 2007)
Voted YES on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. (Jul 1995)
Reject photo ID requirements for voting. (Sep 2005)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on allowing tribal Indians to opt out of federal healthcare. (Feb 2008)
Voted YES on blocking medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
Voted YES on comprehensive immigration reform. (Jun 2007)
Voted YES on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security. (May 2006)
Voted YES on giving Guest Workers a path to citizenship. (May 2006)
Voted YES on visas for skilled workers. (May 1998)
Voted NO on limit welfare for immigrants. (Jun 1997)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
John Ensign and Jim Gibbons were just innocent bystanders minding their own business when the economy suddenly crashed while fellow-republican loser, GW Bush, was president.
Born-Again Johnnie was busy with a series of urgent 'staff' meetings and Jimmy was occupied with some very important midnight text messaging.
11 reasons (not) to vote for democrats in November. http://youtu.be/rYfGCMORVoY
Let's stay on target; this race is not about Ensign, Bush or anyone other than, Angles, and Reid; I'm not voting for Reid, he only cares about power, and greed.
Why doesn't Heller and Lowden support Angle? What is Heller's position on the 14Th amendment.
I can see why pmontg53 wants to "stay on target" and avoid any mention of John Ensign, Jim Gibbons or GW Bush.
If I were a republican I'd want everyone to be stricken with amnesia and to "stay on target" as well, and pretend those epic GOP losers never existed at all.
Personal attacks, gbigs?
Sharon Angle wants to see that a 17 year old girl who gets an abortion after she is impregnated by her father is criminally prosecuted. THAT is a personal attack! If fact, it DOESN'T get any more personal!
Senator Reid is no fan of abortion either; however, unlike Angle, he has clearly stated and acted to NOT grow government to take that liberty away from women in this country. angle would gladly grow government to interfere with every female in this country.
Sharon Angle is an enemy to freedom and liberty to women in this country and would replace their judgement with the judgement of politicians like herself. She can keep her beliefs to herself and not work to make them the law of this land. In fact, since Senator Reid has proven that he recognizes the importance of liberty and freedom on this issue, we shouldn't even consider exchanging him for an enemy of liberty like Sharon Angle.
Name me one good thing the GOP did during their 6 years of total government control.
I seem to recall the GOP tossing away a budget surplus.........lying and fabricating a reason to attack Iraq.........ignored intelligence right before the 9-11 attacks..........passing unfunded tax breaks...........funding the Iraq war off the books..........ignoring immigration for 8 years while millions crossed the border.....creating a whole new department of government (HOMELAND SECURITY)........coerced telecoms to eavesdrop on US citizens..........and fretting about real issues like a flag burning amendemt.
So tell mw one positive thin that came out of 6 years of full GOP leadership.
I sure hope y'all in Nevada don't elect this nutball.
ok gbigs.....what is good about Angles record and her one term in the state house and schools board years.
I'm all ears about what Angle will do for Nevada.
Just as I figured "gbigs", you can't come up with any reason or record to support Angle and neither can she.
What a dud candidate you support.
Krazy Angle's nickname when she was a Nevada State Assemblywoman: "41-to-Angle".
gbigs, please explain, in your opinion, why Krazy Angle had that nicknmame, even among her fellow Republicans? (I can't wait to see what gbigs comes up with!)
So if so-called illegal immigrants are not under our jurisdiction, what happens when one of them commits a crime?
See, the "under our jurisdiction" language describes mainly diplomats, who, along with their children, are indeed not under our jurisdiction. If they commit a crime here, they actually are not under our jurisdiction and we cannot prosecute them, although we can expel them. And if one of them gives birth here, the child does not automatically become a citizen, because of the jurisdiction clause.
Non diplomats are under our jurisdiction regardless of their legal status.
People act like the crime of illegal immigration is some big horrible felonious act. It is a misdemeanor. It is not the stuff of career criminals.
Sure, they do "take jobs". But I'll tell you what, how many people do you know who are willing to make beds and clean toilets all day for minimum wage? How many do you know who will do painting, construction and landscaping in 100-degree heat?
Finally, when are we going to get around to the debate about the real career criminals, those big companies who hire illegal immigrants, knowing they have a captive and low-paid labor pool by doing so? They are the real job thieves.
LastThroes:you said I can see why pmontg53 wants to "stay on target" and avoid any mention of John Ensign, Jim Gibbons or GW Bush.
If I were a republican I'd want everyone to be stricken with amnesia and to "stay on target" as well, and pretend those epic GOP losers never existed at all
-------------------------------------------------
pmontg53 what's wrong with staying on target? The Topic is " Angle thinks Congress should clarify 14th Amendment because illegal immigrants "not under our jurisdiction".... This is supposed to be the topic of discussion. You demorats can't seem to realize that Senator Reid's position on illegal immigration is against any reasonable, or rational application of common sense, in other words he is stone out of his mind on illegal immigration, and you demorats want to look the other way. Please don;t tell me I need a spell check; you get the fist, What about this crappie record,his take on national security stinks...
Can you believe how Senator Reid Voted on Illegal Immigration: doe's this sound like a Man who cares about his country?
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
Voted NO on protecting middle-income taxpayers from a national energy tax. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program. (May 2007)
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities". (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (Jun 2008)
Voted NO on requiring full Senate debate and vote on cap-and-trade. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on $2 billion more for Cash for Clunkers program. (Aug 2009)
Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
Voted YES on Congressional pay raise. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on requiring photo ID to vote in federal elections. (Jul 2007)
Voted YES on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. (Jul 1995)
Reject photo ID requirements for voting. (Sep 2005)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on allowing tribal Indians to opt out of federal healthcare. (Feb 2008)
Voted YES on blocking medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
I'm a little confused, I'm not a resident of Nevada, however everything I've read in this paper and others, I'm not sure how any one in Nevada could say with a straight face that Ms.Angle is not a radical conservative,you know like the one we in Alaska had to endure. For those of you who are her fans,BEWARE,from what I can see Ms. Angle is not that much different than Ms. Palin,and in the end like two peas in a pod, they are just in it for the money and uhmmm fame???!!! However I believe that most Nevadans are smarter than "gbigs" for one anyway.
expat- You are simply a very foolish person.(period). I wouldn't debate with you on anything, would be a total waste of time. I employee American Citizens who clean toilets for minimum wages, where the hell have you been; need a job?
Let me get this straight. "Under", or "Subject to" "jurisdiction" refers to someone to whom -- or something to which -- a government may apply its' law. Does Ms. Angle really mean that Nevada cannot apply its law to illegal aliens? Even in cases of murder?
Is Ms. Angle serious? Or is she just confused by the concepts of Constitutional Law and the provisions of the U.S. Constitution? The provisions of the Constitution are right there, in print, and easy to read. One of those clauses provides that the laws of the Federal Government within its constitutional powers are the supreme law of the land. This is a Constitutional Provision of which Arizona ran afoul according to a federal judge. Some parts of the law were found to be within Arizona's powers as a state. Those parts were upheld. Other parts of Arizona's law were found to be within the province of the federal government. Those parts were struck down. Arizona's appeal is pending.
But to argue, as Ms. Angle apparently does, that the illegality of immigrants removes the power of this State over them for violations of its laws passed within its powers is absurd. It demonstrates a lack of understanding of grade school civics. It points to a complete failure to read our Constitution. It shows that when Ms. Angle places her hand on the Bible and takes an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, she will be clueless.
Our two party system has given us yet another "choice." We can select between someone who has been, is, and will likely remain, perpetually clueless or someone with intelligence who has been, is, and will likely remain, perpetually manipulative.
Ah, Nevada.
grumpyman58: hey Grumpu, if you're not from Nevada; why not keep your nose where ever it belongs. Don't waste our time, we're working here!
'THE HUMPTY DUMPTY CAMPAIGN'
"All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put this campaign together again".
BobbyG, I must caution you that your post is based upon too much Logic, pmontg53, will not be able to respond.
Your argument is quite parrallel to the Porposition 8 law that was founed to be unconstitutional in California last week and this is why no GOP is commenting on the porposition 8 issue.
Ms. Angle, like so many in the GOP is going after the 14th Amendment because it is an 'Argumentum AD Populum', which is (Latin:"appeal to the people") in logic, it is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it, it alleges, "if many believe so, it is so".
One other area that Ms. Angle fall short is when she try to hang the state of the economy in Nevada around Senator Reid's neck.
My advice to Senator Reid would be to share a Vietnamese Probverb, with Mr. Gibbons and Mr. Ensign (when Ms. Angle bring up the economy); which states:
"I HELP YOU DO YOUR JOB TODAY, IT IS STILL YOUR JOB...IF I HELP YOU DO YOUR JOB TOMORROW, IT BECOME MY JOB.
Ms. Angle's campaign is so broken, all of the deflections and efforts trying to use slanted political jargon to make political impact, will not work.
vikings- What is there to respond to, it might be hard for you, but it's easy for me. Sharron Angle did not vote for English NOT to be the Nation Language of the US Government, She did not vote for Open Borders, Most Americans want this country protected, Harry have not done that. Sharron Angle might not have as much political experience as Senator Reid, but even with what she don't have, as far as I am concern it's more than what Harry is willing to give. Do you think that our Borders should be secured?
vikings said- Ms. Angle's campaign is so broken, all of the deflections and efforts trying to use slanted political jargon to make political impact, will not work.
Pmontg53- Said, You Reid supporter are getting desperate, come November there will be an upset, and Senator Harry will be back on the farm in Searchlight.
I suggest Angle actually read the DREAM Act and comment on deporting the young people/students who will be the ones targeted by citizenship in it.
However, in respect to changing the 14th Amendment, I'm actually not opposed to it. However, in order to not be what some people want it to be: overt Hispanic bashing, I propose that it be done AFTER adopting a comprehensive immigration reform package that would include the DREAM ACt (or most of it).
I say this because in no case would changing the Constitution be applied retroactively.
Anyway, given the overall wackiness of Sharron Angle, the 14th Amendment is quite secondary to the overall ridiculousness of having this woman representing the state in the US Senate.
"Back when the 14th was written and ratified there was no such thing as an "illegal immigrant.""
Yes there was - in fact Senator Edgar Cowan of Pennsylvania openly worried that the Chinese in California would take over the state. That the white Europeans would be "immigrated out of house and home" by the Chinese during the debate of the 14th Amendment, specifically whether or not their children should have citizenship.
There is a reason why its birthright citizenship. Because anything else is incredibly arbitrary and subject to the whims of the majority. If you struck birthright citizenship and allowed it to be determined by congress you'd be left with a disaster.
If Republicans ever got a super-majority they could pass a law stating if either of your parents were registered Democrat, you're not a US citizen (and they'd scream FREEDOM and PATRIOT at the top of their lungs while they did it too). We'd be like China or the USSR.
Today's date marks a major event in US political history.
Thirty-six years ago, on August 9, 1974, one Richard Milhous Nixon resigned the Presidency of the United States of America, becoming the one and only Commander in Chief in US history to resign from office or face imminent impeachment.
Nixon was a crook, racist and destroyer of anyone who dared to challenge him. But first and foremost Nixon was a died-in-the-wool Republican.
Some things never change.
gbigs: Your poster boy Republican, Senator McCain, advocated FOR amnesty back when this first became a major issue. (And when it was near election time, and there were votes to be gained.) Now he advocates against it, where there are votes to be gained. Sounds like some Republicans are looking for voters, no matter when the election.
Surprise!
LastThroes said "Nixon was a crook, racist and destroyer of anyone who dared to challenge him. But first and foremost Nixon was a died-in-the-wool Republican. Some things never change."
Pmontg53 you are so right look what Senator Reid said about Obama---------------------------------
Senator Reid Said "Obama, as a black candidate, could be successful thanks, in part, to his "light-skinned" appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one."
Pmontg said- Around the same time Martin Luther King was a registered Republican, he was not racist, not all Republicans are racist, get over it. I'm a Republican, I am Black, I don't hate anyone for the color of their skin, and I don't vote for someone just because they are Black. There are Democrats who hate Blacks, who just want to use them to further their political careers. I'm glad to know that Sharron Angle is a Southern Baptist
By gbigs
Aug. 9, 2010
3:28 p.m.
"Reid has destroyed housing, the econ, jobs in Nevada."
```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
NEWSFLASH, gbigs- eight years of a Republican White House and Congress destroyed housing, the econ, jobs in Nevada.
What arrogance! What an insult to our intelligence!
As far as immigration reform, she thinks it's alright to throw out the Constitution? What part of "All men are created equal" does she not understand?
Reid didn't destroy housing. Wall Street did, due to greed and the house of unregulated cards that was enabled by Bush. Greed will take this country down if we're not very careful.
Angle won't help with jobs. She's already said all unemployed people are "lazy." (50 people fighting for every job, and every unemployed person trying to hang on tooth and nail to their homes, their families, and their dignity). Unemployed? Remember That in November!
She thinks it's alright to have clergy stump for candidates from the pulpit? What happened to separation of Church and State? I guess that goes out, too, along with any other provisions of the Constitution she doesn't like.
I'll say it again, what arrogance!
"AngleSpeak";
When I did my first Earth Flyby in my Spaceship,
I was BLINDED by RAYS FROM A RADIO STATION TOWER in FARGO!
So, THIS time, I flew 'round south and hit the desert screamin' over Utah way...landed 'er on them FLATS they call em...duh! Anyhow, that's how I come to join you earth-folk here in this neck o' the US of A. & By God, I will spread my Gospel of NutSpeak throughout this Sin infested corner of the Universe; it's the LEAST I can do for ya."
"Can I have an AMEN on that???"
""gbigs"" is about as clueless as Angle is........neither has a clue...........he sounds like one of those $13/hour republicans that think voting GOP is in his best interest, when they will stick it to him in a nano-second.
Another_Viewpoint. Where in the Constitution does it talk about seperation of Church and State?
Great!
Angle for PresiPope!!!
"I can use my personal Spacecraft as the "PresiPopeMobile...who wants to ride shotgun???"
Amnesty is the next "secret weapon" the left is going to try. They will also try and pass more ridiculous legislation as a "hail mary". They're in for a blood bath and they know it.
Frau Angle wants pregnancies caused by rape and incest carried to term. What if the father, or victim, of this crime is an illegal alien? In this scenario, who is deported?
Nevada becomes BREEDING FACILITY for illegal immigrants! Breed all that you can now. 50 Million new immigrants born in USA.
Think this couldn't happen soon? Democrats would love this. A totally huge new bunch added to their constituency. Into the Abyss! Use your vote wisely Nevada.
NONE should make ammendaments -or change the Constitution of the Land!! In doing so, this democracy run the risk of becaming absolete- if a bunch of individuals uses it to fullfil their personal extremist -racist- agendas!!!
Eb, so cut the check and pay for the education, welfare and education of anchor babies. Leave us out of it. We don't want to pay, get it. That isn't a racist statement.
Extreme fanaticism in the name of religion and/or politics is no virtue; both Angle and Reid are fanatical extremists each espousing their own causes and views. Nevada has entered a situation where the choice for U.S. Senate has left us all wondering how can we vote for either of these individuals. Our choices are very limited to almost nothing; either way we will end up voting is bound to be a disaster for the good of the entire state of Nevada. Our choices in either party's primary election left us with the same situation with no real viable candidates to select from.
Now we face the general election with Nevada's poorest slate of U.S. Senate candidates since I first voted at age 21 in 1957. I know Harry Reid's record all these past years and he will not be my choice; I am left with the dilemma of either voting for Sharron Angle or 'NONE OF THESE'. The only saving grace I can see in voting for Angle is that in her future six years in the senate as a junior senator she will have minimal clout, no seniority and no power to do anything innovative or radical on her own other than to vote in unison most of the time along Republican Party lines. This is a sad choice to be left with when voting for a U.S. Senate seat; it seems to be akin to choosing between death by being dropped in to a metal shredding machine or being drawn and quartered in the Middle Ages. Both choices are horrible and extremely painful to endure.
Just how reforming or radical is Sharron Angle? In the state assembly she voted not to give funding to help non-profit organizations working with kids to conduct background checks; these would have been checks to weed out child molestors and other such perverts from working with children. She was only one of two such anti- votes for that measure. Now is that the kind of reform we really want, or is it radical thinking that we cannot tolerate? That is something to contemplate for the next election that will be for a U.S. Senate Seat. Reid or Angle or 'None of These'?
change the Constitution . now really sharron just explain how you would go about that . how many years will it take . can you get fifty states to ratify .all you give us are laughable and impossible goals. real solutions not rhetoric
Wedo: To change the US Constitution, I think that you only have to have 3/4 of the States and 2/3 of both the US Senate and House of Representatives.
If the US starts going after pregnant women that are suspected of being illegal aliens, Who do we hire and train to do this?
Will they be Federal Workers? Will they work for minimum wage? Who will train them? Will the trainers work for minimum wage? Will they be able to join a Union?
Are going to build more federal prisons?
Will the guards work for minimum wage?
Will this expand the Federal work force?
Will this add to the National debt?
The GOP wants to complain, but they have no solutions and they are wrong in so many ways.
Grown-ups in charge is what GoGoWhiteSOx thinks the GOP is. He could not be further from the truth. Sharron Angle is train wreck, and every voter knows it.
"From Angle supporter pmontg53: Where in the Constitution does it talk about seperation of Church and State?"
Really, is the education level of her base? I guess everything I was taught in elementary school in Hawthorne, NV was wrong on the Constitution and the founding of our country.
Angle's only ideas to help this country solve overwhelming problems come from the same old Republican method: blame everything on the powerless, the people who don't have the money to fund the Republican war chest. Use that war chest to fund a candidate who says God told them to run for office. Then throw some issues out there that never fail to rouse up the mob. Create so much ado about nothing, there won't be time to think about solutions to the real problems. Then that candidate comes down from the mountains - or out of the desert here - with those commandments written on stone, and by God, she's going to save us.
It's the same old story every election. Republicans have no new ideas, no solutions, because they like it the way it is.
Give 'em hell, Harry Reid!
Good luck in November vs. the loose Wingnut!
"Certainly someone who has not come here under the rule of law is not under our jurisdiction." -- Sharron Angle
Read that several times, and ask yourself if Sharron Angle understands the law well enough to represent Nevada as a legislator. You don't have to be an attorney to serve in the Senate, but do you really want to elect someone whose understanding of basic concepts like "jurisdiction" is so plainly, painfully inadequate?
Sharron I think your poll numbers just went up. Harry is out in November
Do anchor babies have dual citizenship?
Yes, children of illegal immigrants generally dual have citizenship (unless their parents country of citizenship has laws which only grant citizenship to persons born there).
pmontg:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" is generally described as "separation of church and state.
Any questions?
Lets consider the amnesty issue for a moment. There are somewhere between 12 and 20 million illegal immigrants. The two choices are amnesty or not amnesty. If we chose the former, the cost of deportations (currently around $5B per year) would drop to almost nothing (especially if tied to better border security. Add to that savings the number of new taxpayers. Since the right claims illegals pay no taxes this new source of revenue would be huge.
On the other side is no amnesty. Cost to deport is currently running at around $40,000 per person bringing the cost to deport to between $500 billion and $800 billion. With 8 to 10 million fewer workers, presumably unemployment would drop to around 4% which would push wages up, if the American unemployed were willing to pick crops, clean houses, work in a meat packing plant etc. (Ask yourself if you lost your $40,000 per year job in a nice air conditioned office, store, warehouse etc would you rather pick crops for $8 per hour or collect unemployment insurance for that or more?) The housing situation would get worse as the inventory of vacant rentals would be increased by the departure of the renters so the value of your house would drop. Some illegals pay taxes, you know like sales tax, FICA if they use a fake id etc, so any savings in government support would likely be fully offset.
I have looked at this every way til Sunday and I cannot see one good result from not giving amnesty. Oh yes, if we give amnesty, the right will argue that we will encourage others to come here illegally. To that I have two response, before the first amnesty, illegals came here in ever increasing numbers and the amnesty should be tied to better border security.
The problem is that this issue is a political football. As long as the problem is unresolved the right gets to spread fear and the left gets to pander to the minorities. So they both sit on their hands and throw spitballs at each other and we all lose.
how about writing in hss46 for U.S. Senator in November?
At least someone who thinks.
Thank you Mr. Goodman, but I like the job I have.
nice hss46 but remember amnesty is total and complete forgiveness Fines and community service are punishment . it is a misdemeanor to jump the fence . punish their crime and let's get on with life .the revenue from registration and fines will be huge . give a 10 year probation to gain citizenship . all violent criminals get deported . find a way to get good people desperate for a better life a way to gain entrance without waiting for years in limbo and no one will be jumping the fence but smugglers and terrorists making them much easier to catch . lets find solutions instead of hateful rhetoric
"The two choices are amnesty or not amnesty."
There's a third choice - a guest worker program that allows someone to come to this country to work legally, but subject to certain restrictions. For example, they are not allowed to receive unemployment benefits, nor are they allowed to receive retirement benefits, although they would have to pay into the Social Security trust fund. Their children could be allowed to attend public schools, if they pay a locally determined fee. Their employers would be required to provide group medical insurance, although they would not be required to pay toward their coverage. Finally, any employer found to be employing an undocumented alien will be fined some exorbitant amount, to be enforced by the Department of Labor in conjunction with the IRS.
Does this sound like a workable solution?
Sharron Angle is correct in her stance on the 14th Amendment. The facts are there, it is clear for any who want the truth. If you ever watch C-SPAN you will notice congressmen putting their comments etc. in the record.
So when you look at how the 14 Amendment came about, it is clear that it was for slaves and never intended for people who illegally sneak into the country and give birth while here.
Remember John McCain was not born in the U.S. and yet no one claimed he was not an American. He was the child of American citizens and born in Panama. He is not a citizen of Panama.
WHILE I AM AT IT, you have to be stupid not to understand that Obama is an American citizen.
Wedo
An amnesty program usually has conditions, like pay back taxes, no criminal record yada yada. Its not all or nothing.
Dave
A guest worker program might work to address future immigrants but it doesn't deal with the ppl that have been here for years and years. If you said to the ppl here, you can't have a path to legal status, but you can have a guest worker visa and then go home, too many won't take it. Its not amnesty and you still have millions of illegals here in the underground economy.
ohcalcutagirl
You can believe what you hear on fox noise but the courts have already addressed the issue. Status is irrelevant. As was noted here yesterday, RS of the US, Sec 1992, enacted essentailly concurrently with the 14th amendment did have language which added as a modifier that birth citizenship didn't apply to persons subject to a foreign power. The court concluded that it shouldnt read that into the amendment because it isn't in the amendment (called strict construction for you fans of Justice Scalia) and clearly congress could have put it in the amendment if they chose to but didn't. Also that language would have to apply to legal as well as illegals because even legals are subject to a foreign power.
Why would all the GOP Senators be talking about amending the 14th amendment if it didn't protect children of illegals?
I don't like Senator Reid's record on illegal immigration; what do you Harry supporters think?
Voted NO on declaring English as the official language of the US government. (Jun 2007)
Voted NO on protecting middle-income taxpayers from a national energy tax. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on eliminating the "Y" nonimmigrant guestworker program. (May 2007)
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted YES on continuing federal funds for declared "sanctuary cities". (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on Bush Administration Energy Policy. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on tax incentives for energy production and conservation. (Jun 2008)
Voted NO on requiring full Senate debate and vote on cap-and-trade. (Apr 2009)
Voted YES on $2 billion more for Cash for Clunkers program. (Aug 2009)
Voted YES on enlarging NATO to include Eastern Europe. (May 2002)
Voted YES on Congressional pay raise. (Jul 2009)
Voted NO on requiring photo ID to vote in federal elections. (Jul 2007)
Voted YES on allowing some lobbyist gifts to Congress. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on establishing the Senate Office of Public Integrity. (Mar 2006)
Voted NO on banning more types of Congressional gifts. (Jul 1995)
Reject photo ID requirements for voting. (Sep 2005)
Voted NO on more penalties for gun & drug violations. (May 1999)
Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks. (Jul 1998)
Voted NO on allowing tribal Indians to opt out of federal healthcare. (Feb 2008)
Voted YES on blocking medical savings acounts. (Apr 1996)
Just an idea: wouldn't both countries benefit if Mexico were to become a State or a Commonwealth? Then we could just "tear down that wall" and share resources to solve the problems of both countries.
pmontg53
You've printed that list enough times and no one really believes it means what you want it to mean unless they already don't like Sen Reid.
Most of those bills contained many many provisions and most were offered before he was Majority leader and could influence what was in each bill. And like the Stimulus Bill and the Health Care Reform bill, most bills have hundreds if not thousands of pages with many many different provisions. A no vote on a bill that has good provisions may very well be appropriate if there also bad provisions that can be eliminated then the good provisions can re-offered as part of a new bill. And a yes vote on a bill with bad provisions is not always wrong as it can always be modified later. An example of the latter is the Medicare Drug Bill of 2003, which was very expensive but has since been fixed up to a degree.
That being said,
English shouldn't be the official language.
The Energy Policy wasn't all bad and the bad parts weren't too bad
There are enough tax incentives for energy production, we need less, not more.
Cap and trade is a good thing in the long run even though it might hurt the profits of the energy companies who have stockpiled 10's of billions by exploiting current incentives and haven't reinvested much at all to create jobs here.
Cash for clunkers was probably a good thing.
Whats wrong with enlarging NATO?
And on and on.
Is he perfect, not by a long shot. Name a senator who is. Name any politician who is.
Bluejens, that would also give us access to all their oil reserves!
But it won't happen because, among other things, Mexicans aren't white and like it or not we are sitll a very color conscious Nation.
It doesn't matter which one gets voted in because they both are bad news. If you want to see change, boycott this election. Do not vote. I plan on doing the same, but there is strength in numbers. Take a stand and let's show Nevada we mean business!!!
hss46, I will post Reid's record as long as it's legal to do so. what's so hard about voting NO on building a fence to protect American lives, and property?, what's wrong with English being the official language for the United States? Why should any illegal alien receive Social Security, why should they even be here? I for one get sick and tired of hearing press 1 for English, and 2 for Spanish, what about all of the other nationalities? Americans are being discriminated against on our own country, why should American Citizen have to be bilingual to get certain Jobs, No Ladies; I will post Dirty Harry's record as long as it takes. Voting YES on allowing Federal funds to go to Sanctuary Cities, Voters need to know that Senator Reid is in favor of their tax dollars going to Cities who support illegal immigration. So the HECK with what you think, or say
Fox analyst, Judge Andrew Napolitano, slams republicans for forgetting their 'oath to uphold the Constitution'
Harry Reid was getting a bloody nose, what happen to all of the articles? well I guess they do need to give us a fresh start sometimes.
Harry Reid is going down, like the mighty titanic, and who said that it couldn't be sunk; David took goliaths head clean off, everyone was afraid of the giant. Goodbye giant
I know that it's a bit awkward for you republiscum and baggers to actually think, but what do all you brainiacs propose for people who were brought here when they were children, and this is the only country they've know? How about the people who are willing to die to come to this country to give their children a better life, does this mean nothing to you?
People come here to have babies. They come here to drop a child.
We have to change our Constitution and say if you come here illegally and you
have a child, that child's automatically not a citizen.
Push your state rep to make a change. Sign the Petition !
Google this: NUMBERSUSA.
Once you are registered, go to the "action buffet" to send FREE faxes now.
They are all typed up and ready to go, you just need to click your mouse to send.
Forward this to everyone you know.
Reid is in the lead of this election, and look at what he plans on doing:
http://www.mynews3.com/story.php?id=2510...
We must not let him win the election this November. We can take a stand!
plllleeeease shut up sharon, just smile and wave until you get a speech writer
Narf:
Do you really believe that, because you "grew up with mom and dad" that those of us who grew up with something different are somehow less worthy of the protection of the Constitution than you? Yes you and your ilk have your values. Bless you for your values. But other people have other values and your right to have your values does not give you the right to dictate them to others.
You may believe that Obama's agenda is against the will of the people but he was clear in his agenda when he ran and in spelling out his agenda, he won the election by a very sizable majority.
You can oversimplify all you need to, in order to make the issue understandable to you and your fellow travelers. But immigration is a very very complicated issue. As a practical matter, attempting to deport 12 to 20 million people is both unbelievably expense, damaging to the economy and immoral.
It is truly a shame that you and your ilk believe so much in your own moral superiority that anything you can rationalize is okay no matter who it hurts. Its that kind of immorality that makes the world hate Americans, causes the peoples of 3rd world countries in Asia and Africa to engage in terrorism and tears us apart internally. The views you express are unAmerican, and very unpatriotic.
Nitro:
Wow! Call me Pollyanna. I really didn't believe that so much anti-semitism existed in this country. The filth on the link you posted is mind-boggling. Some of that is right out of Goebels playbook.
By posting that link are you saying you subscribe to some or all of those hate filled postings? Do you really believe that Jews are inherently evil?
Does your quote of that portion of my post indicate your agreeemnt with Narf's values? I didn't realize so many men were so afraid of their homosexual desires that they have to hate all non-heterosexuals. You might want to run for senate in Idaho!
Nitro:
You can't deport someone born here back to a country they've never been to, even if their values are different than yours. Too bad the consitution you probably worship (see the first commandment) gives us all (including both people with different values and people whose parents were undocumented) the equal protection of the laws. That must really chafe your a$$.
But underlying all our disagreements, you are right that I am what you would call a socialist. For example, I'd far rather have a British style socialized medicine system than the single payor Canadian System. (ObamaCare is a joke because it leaves insurance companies in place to continue to rip people off.) Those countries spend one third to one half less per person on medical care and have better life expectancies than we do. While you may claim they have "rationed" care, so do we. Here health care is rationed based on your particular insurance coverage. Those that work for generous employers get all they want, those that work for other employers or get laid off get none. And you probably think that's fair because people who get laid off "deserve" what they get. I really do hope you don't fall into that situation because even you don't deserve that.
It just amazes me how people who claim to be Christians will read into the Bible what supports their fear based values but completely ignore the real point of the Christ about how one is supposed to treat his fellow man.
While I've read my bible from cover to cover, I can't find anywhere that it says socialism is bad, but the Christ certainly approved taxes (see Mark 12:17).
Nitro
Thank you for your clarification. You've taught us that Canada is a collectivist Marxist nation because single payor health care is socialism which is the same as communism, that Lenin and Trotsky were jews, that antisemitism is right and good, communism is a failed jewish plot, anti-semitism is a sign of intelligence, and America's problems are a result of the Jews. This does sound vaguely familiar but, at my feeble level of intelligence, I can't quite place where I've heard all that before? I assume that the holocaust is a myth or at the very least deserved.
Clearly you are an intelligent individual who is fully capable of the highest level of critical thinking, proof of the quality of American education.
I do wish I had your certainty and
IF you got that out of my posts, your reading comprehension skills could use some work. Amnesty does not equal unlimited immigration except to the simpleminded. Taking key services, like health care, out of the hands of private companies that rip us off is not collectivism, except to the simpleminded.
Curious that you seem to be worried unlimited immigration only if it comes from the 3rd world? So illegals from Canada, Australia, Europe would not be as bad a problem? Let me guess, you're white? Oh, I'm sorry, we liberals aren't allowed to point out racism.
OMG, I didn't know that 9/11 was rally a Jewish plot! ROFLMAO
Do you realize how hard it is for anyone to take you seriously when you post like this? But you're right so you don't care if anyone does (unless they agree with you).
I think the Feds need to go get Nitro, he's an accident- that boy is the seed of Hitler, I remember guarding Rudolph Hess at Spandau Prison in West Berlin Germany back in 1978. Surly Hitler was spinning in his grave to see a Black Soldier guarding his right hand man. Hitler, Hess, or Nitro didn't, or don't find, and accept the Jewish Man called Jesus Christ- he is eternally be separated from God. So Nitro I pray that you have a change of heart, you can't hate others, and expect to see God.
My sides hurt from laughing too hard to even respond.
Nitry- You are a foool; I can take care of myself, well trained, and equipped, if it wasn't for Christ people like me would ground you despicable a&& into a fine white powder. No need to comment, I will not reply to you on this, or any other post. Your agenda is a dead subject, when I think about what people like you have done to my race,and others; All I will do it pray, I will report your comments to the FCC or who ever, you're A&& should have been gone day one.
Wow! How does one respond to mindless tripe?
Help American Citizens who are directly affected by Senator Reid's bad vote on illegal immigration:
go to http://www.bordersheriffs.com
Nitro, since you have reading comprehensions, I can sort of see why you might take it as a threat. I don't think it was a threat to your life but an expectation that you might need institutionalizatoin
Oh are we changing the topic from state revenue to immigration? Its sort of funny that the sheriff of Maricopa County says AZ needs SB1070 because the illegal immigration is causing a huge spike in the crime rate, but the FBI reports that crime in Phoenix is down 10% each of the last 4 years. The FBI must be part of the global zionist/communist conspiracy.
So I'm a man? You are being presumptive.
And I don't want to censor you. I want you to continue blogging your tripe. Your attitudes and prejudice are better than stand up comedy. And it makes people in the political center realize where the far right really comes from. My attitude towards you is the same as Reid's toward Angle. The more people hear your prejudices the more they realize that Harry is just a crappy politician and that's better than an extremist.
Please don't stop blogging.
Is there more than one Hitler lover in the house?
When America goes through economic hard times, or through times of rapid social and cultural change, Americans find it easier to blame immigrants than to actually read a book and getting informed about complex issues. In the 1850's, it was the Irish. In the Roaring 20's, harsh immigration laws to solve the problem.
In California history, the economic downturn of the 1870s was blamed on the Chinese. Later, in the early 1900's it was the Japanese who were the problem. During the Great Depression, thousands of Mexicans were rounded up and shipped off to Mexico, many of them American citizens. After the Cold War, and the economic downturn of the early 1990's, Californians elected Pete Wilson on a campaign of immigrant bashing.
Folks, we all agree we need a sane policy on immigration. Please tone down the rhetoric and let's actually talk to one another. Enough hysteria please.
Woody:
You're history is a good addition but the immigrant bashers aren't capable of dialing it down.
I wonder what Las Vegas would look like if, overnight, every illegal immigrant disappeared? What if Sharron could talk to God and get him to do this? Just how much of the local economy would go down the tubes? Just wondering. Any statistics on percentage of work force?
Geez, I really want to do some landscaping, dish-washing, ditch digging soon -- so maybe I can get a job. Maybe go pick some fruit somewhere, lay some irrigation pipe -- great opportunities out there for us real Americans.
nitro, you've been guarding that junkyard so long, you're growling at your own tail.
Narf is Nitro
WoodySez1: Out of all of the different groups you mentioned, not one demonstrated in our streets demanding their rights, not one of these other races, said that they will take back this country; one man at a time. Not one of the groups you mentioned are invading our borders, and killing American Citizens. Tell the whole truth
By TheAntiWingnut
Aug. 14, 2010
9:36 p.m.
Suggest removal pmontg53 wrote, in part, the following:
"There are Democrats who hate Blacks, who just want to use them to further their political careers."
Name one.
----------------------------------------------
pmontg53. There are too many to name, look up the voting record of Black Politicians, Black Democrats who supports the killing in innocent human beings, even though abortion was originally meant to slow the population of Black babies born in the U.S, so Yes Black politicians hate black infants, who die at the hands of butchers on a daily basis.
http://www.100abortionpictures.com