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John Katsilometes
The huge, high-definition video screen — the trademark of Cowboys Stadium — is but one factor that makes Dallas now competitive with Vegas.
Published Sunday, March 21, 2010 | 2:05 a.m.
Updated Wednesday, March 24, 2010 | 6:13 p.m.
Room for Two?
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diggAfter Manny Pacquiao defeated Joshua Clottey at Cowboys Stadium, could more fights be moving out of Las Vegas in the near future?
Pacquiao Dominates
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Before nearly 51,000 people at Cowboys Stadium, Manny Pacquiao beat Joshua Clottey by a unanimous decision on Saturday night.
Sun archives
- Jerry Jones says Cowboys, NFL will lift boxing (3-9-2010)
- Rodeo rustler? Tourism officials worry Dallas Cowboys owner could steal Vegas event (3-4-2010)
- City OKs plan to study downtown arena, entertainment district (11-4-2009)
- Cordish projects include sports-anchored developments (11-4-2009)
- Goodman: 20,000-seat downtown arena could lure NBA team (10-29-09)
- Mayor seeking arena development deal for City Hall parcel (10-28-2009)
- With arena plan dead, what next for former REI Neon site? (8-2-2009)
Jerry Jones.
Related blogs
- Departing Dallas, with thoughts of water attractions and a splashy title bout (3-14-2010)
- Live blog from Dallas: Manny Pacquiao-Joshua Clottey, first fight card at Cowboys Stadium (3-13-2010)
- Is it possible to gauge a fighter’s mindset from a weigh-in? We’ll find out tonight (3-13-2010)
- A long-ago tale of how Big John Tate’s victory trophy went undelivered (3-12-2010)
- From the rumble seat: Michael Buffer impressed by the magnitude of it all (3-11-2010)
- A first look at Cowboys Stadium, which is a really impressive fight club (3-10-2010)
- Manny Pacquiao’s workout an exercise in sweat, promotional frivolity, party chatter (3-9-2010)
- A memorable benefit and a trip back to Ruvo Clinic, followed by touchdown in Big D (3-8-2010)
- An open workout for Clottey in Dallas, and that means one thing: Jerry Jones is in the house (3-8-2010)
It is decision time at Cowboys Stadium.
Should you watch the action in the boxing ring? That’s where a pair of welterweights who tip the scale at around 145 pounds have been reduced to performing fleas by the pure enormity of their surroundings.
Should you instead watch that colossal video screen? It’s brawny. It’s beautiful. It looms large over the fight, seeming about to drop right into the action. The vast, high-definition expanse, the largest screen on the planet, shows each bead of blood and every blemish in vibrant color.
On the screen, these little fighters appear Bunyanesque.
But you hear a voice from afar and you glance, instead, behind you, toward the sea of upholstered seats being filled by thousands of fight fans. It is familiar, this voice. Or is it? It is a voice of Las Vegas, but we’re far from there, in spirit and in fact.
You make eye contact and yes, you know this man who now leans in and shouts to be heard: “Tell everyone in Las Vegas this place is terrible!”
This person is very Vegas. He is Cisco Aguilar, legal counsel for someone who is even more Vegas than he, the city’s native son Andre Agassi.
Vegas is in the house, and she is paying attention. But terrible? This place? Hardly. But you get the joke, and even a ripple of underlying concern. This place is no more terrible than it is understated — which is to say, it is wholly the opposite. It is a Texas-sized spectacle, a 100,000-seat domed palace of sports and entertainment — the vision of a man with an appropriately formidable ego, Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones.
It would be worth praising unconditionally, for folks like Aguilar and, across the arena, Nevada political operative Sig Rogich, if it weren’t such an obvious and immediate threat to how Las Vegas does business. Big-event business, specifically. And on this night, even more specifically, boxing business.
Despite the mock plea from Aguilar, or any other individual concerned with Las Vegas tourism, we cannot report Cowboys Stadium is terrible. But it is terribly fascinating.
The stadium is a game-changer, without question. The proof can be found under a white retractable roof on a cool Saturday evening in Arlington, where nearly 51,000 boxing fans have gathered for what would be a lackluster title fight matching legendary punching machine Manny Pacquiao with cocooned challenger Joshua Clottey.
Pacquiao would pound his way to a unanimous decision. The even bigger big winner was, in its debut fight, Cowboys Stadium.
On the very same evening in Vegas, heretofore recognized as the Boxing Capital of the World, the MGM Grand Garden Arena sits empty.
Vegas will hope this is not prophetic.
Jones claims that one day he can put 110,000 fans into Cowboys Stadium for boxing, and you don’t doubt that he can, if the fighters swapping leather are Pacquiao and Mayweather.
“We are serious about boxing,” Jones says after the fight, and it certainly looks so.
You start doing simple math, realizing that Jones’ kind of numbers would fill MGM Grand Garden Arena a half-dozen times. You know that Jones didn’t build this stadium just for football, and he’s spoiling for fights, having said he wanted Pacquiao-Mayweather “so bad I could taste it” and put down $25 million to prove it.
And you remember the action in the ring, gazing up at the Godlike screen that seems as if you are witnessing the bout in your own living room, and you realize this stadium is a formidable, heavyweight contender staring down Vegas in the opposite corner.
‘It’s flamboyant’
To understand the effect the $1.2 billion Cowboys Stadium has on the greater Dallas area, particularly Arlington, consider the Dallas Morning News’ selection as its Sports Personality of 2009: Cowboys Stadium.
“This stadium is showy,” Jones told the Morning News. “It’s flamboyant. It’s ballsy ... Would you be wrong to say that the stadium is like me? No, you would not.”
To visualize why Cowboys Stadium, aesthetically, is such an appealing event venue is jarringly simple: It is the screen, stupid. Take it from two wildly divergent voices: Former Cowboy wideout Michael Irvin, and Pat Christenson, head of Las Vegas Events.
Irvin, as a former player and current NFL broadcaster, has seen just about every form of stadiums in the country. Of this one: “Wait ’til you see the screen. It will blow your mind.”
Jerry Jones meets and scrawls for a few of the more than 1,000 fans who showed up for Manny Pacquiao's open workout today at the Gaylord Texan.
Christenson, whose position with Las Vegas Events is to book shows and events in Las Vegas, takes a more clinical view.
“If it weren’t for the video screens, it would be just another stadium,” Christenson said. “I think it’s a gorgeous arena, but the reason they are selling tickets is the video screen. Boxing is a great example. Without the screens, it would be horrible. You’d be watching two little dots.”
No doubt. The screen brings whatever action is happening below to the stadium’s nether regions. Those sitting in the $50 seats for the March 13 bout had almost the same visual experience as those in the $700 seats. The NBA All-Star Game played to 108,000 fans, most of whom watched the contest not on the basketball court itself, but on the screen (which, at 159 feet wide, is far larger than an NBA-sized court, and spans each 20-yard-line of a football field).
Invaluably, the screen allows the stadium to expand its selection of events to just about any ticketed performance or competition. The first event at Cowboys Stadium was a George Strait concert in June. The first sporting event was a soccer doubleheader that drew 82,252 people, the largest crowd for such an event in Texas history. Jones has nailed down the 2011 Super Bowl and the NCAA’s 2014 Final Four. If there’s a papal visit in the offing anywhere in the Southwest, expect Jones to try mightily to book the pope.
This weekend it’s an AMA Supercross event, the type of show that brings several thousand fans to Sam Boyd Stadium each year.
“I think Jerry Jones realizes you can’t build a monster stadium just for football,” said Thomas & Mack Center and Sam Boyd Stadium Director Daren Libonati, who books events ranging from U2 concerts to PBR events at those venues. “You need to turn the turnstiles year-round and create opportunities to fill seats.”
That means, of course, Jones is seeking boxing matches. UFC President Dana White attended with co-owner Lorenzo Fertitta, lending speculation that the UFC, too, might branch out to Cowboys Stadium.
But what else is Jones after?
The Jones doctrine
Wearing a navy-blue suit adorned with a diamond-studded Dallas Cowboy lapel pin, Jones picks the spot for this midweek interview: A staircase landing on the second deck of Cowboys Stadium, overlooking the construction of the ring for the upcoming Pacquiao-Clottey fight.
The banging of metal beams and the whir of pneumatic tools play as a sort of soundscape for Jones’ distinctive drawl.
For starters, what does he have to say to people who live in Las Vegas who are concerned he is taking away some of the city’s most lucrative boxing events?
Manny Pacquiao addresses those in attendance for a press conference at Dallas Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas on Jan. 19, 2010. Pacquiao is scheduled to meet Joshua Clottey in a welterweight bout on March 13 at Dallas Cowboys Stadium.
“It is a concern for Las Vegas, and I understand that,” he says. “But what we do here, for select fights, is great for Las Vegas.”
Really? How so?
“We can contribute to the interest in the sport across the country, including in Las Vegas.”
Jones is asked about the $25 million he offered to lure the ill-fated Pacquiao-Mayweather fight to Dallas. The figure is the largest such guarantee for any bout in history (by about $8 million), but he also has said that writing $25 million checks is not too uncommon for an NFL owner.
He is asked about reports that he is interested in bringing the National Finals Rodeo to Cowboys Stadium. Jones doesn’t seem to have given much thought about the profound effect it would have on Las Vegas if the rodeo moves to Texas.
In fact, he refers to it as “National Rodeo Finals.” He says he not yet talked directly with anyone at the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association about the future of the NFR.
“What we do recognize is that this is, quote-unquote, cowboy country, both from the standpoint of getting into the saddle and running up and down the field,” he says. “But I am a lot more passionate about the Cowboys who put on a football helmet.”
The NFR, a rite of winter in Vegas for 25 years that brings about 35,000 tourists and $50 million during what was once a stagnant time for tourism in the city, is contracted to be in Las Vegas through 2014. But because Cowboys Stadium has held a PBR event, to a crowd of 46,000, speculation is that Jones will throw a saddlebag full of cash across the table to bring that event to his billion-dollar fun house.
Any truth to that?
“I will say that rodeo is part of the heritage of this area. We have huge Dallas Cowboy fans who are rodeo fans, and certainly we have the potential to be aligned with those types of events,” Jones says. “But Las Vegas has such attractiveness to the people of rodeo, coming out there having worked a year to get there. Las Vegas has worked to build that into such a major event, and I recognize that. I do look at (the NFR) differently than I do a fight, a boxing match, mainly because there are just more opportunities to do boxing events than there is to do the National Rodeo Finals. It’s way out ahead of anything I’m about right now.
Manny Pacquiao and Joshua Clottey on-stage with promoter Bob Arum and Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones during a press conference at Dallas Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas on Jan. 19, 2010.
“I’m not trying to be shrewd and I’m not trying to be clever, but when you have a stadium you just spent $1.2 billion on ... I can’t make any mistakes,” Jones says. “The National Rodeo Finals are a great product, but I feel much more comfortable about doing fights here.”
Besides, the rodeo falls during the Cowboys’ regular-season schedule. As Jones notes, he did not build his team a new stadium only to have it displaced for two or even three home games so the other cowboys can roll in the dirt for two weeks.
It is noted that Jones does have a little Vegas in him.
“What I enjoy about Las Vegas is its building — I’m into building, hard spaces, floor coverings. I respect people who build and create jobs,” he says. “I enjoy Las Vegas’ interest in sports, which is a good thing ... I like to watch the customers and people who come to Las Vegas, how it makes them live in a world that’s a much-needed respite from the real trials of life. That is very similar to what I think the Dallas Cowboys are, and what the NFL is.”
The Texas tourism tax
Texas has more going for it than just Jerry Jones and his SuperSized Screen.
The state uses public money to help lure major events to places such as Cowboys Stadium, through its Texas Event Trust Fund.
The fund collects a 6 percent room tax levied on every hotel in the state. Expenses for select events, such as the NBA All-Star Game and the Super Bowl, can be reimbursed through this fund provided the events prove they have met a specific economic stimulus requirement. An independent firm conducts a study to see if, for example, an event would bring $8 million to the Dallas-Arlington region. For the most part, the standard has been met. At the moment, only major events are covered, but the state Legislature can adjust the requirements so an event like the Academy of Country Music Awards (to name one Vegas favorite) can be brought to Cowboys Stadium.
“As much as we should be worried about what Jerry Jones is doing, this fund has the potential to be a real problem if there was a lobbying effort to include events like the ACMAs,” Christenson said. “I’m more concerned about the State of Texas than I am Jerry Jones, to be honest.”
What is required, Christenson says (and boxing promoter Bob Arum aggressively concurs), is some sort of unified civic effort in the form of a new, neutral facility in Las Vegas. A proposal in late 2009 for a temporary arena concept was initiated by Christenson, and later picked up by Rogich.
The big screen at Cowboys Stadium, promoting Saturday's Manny Pacquiao-Joshua Clottey fight.
This venue would have seated about 30,000 fans on the open parcel where the New Frontier once stood, across from Wynn, Encore, Venetian and Palazzo. This venue might have hearkened to boxing’s glory days at the temporary stadium at Caesars Palace, which was overtaken by that hotel’s extensive expansion.
The idea of bringing events to the city’s signature location and peerless photo opportunity — the Strip — was appealing to Rogich, one of the state’s more influential political operatives and PR consultants. He’s also a former Nevada state athletic commissioner who has been involved in marketing Las Vegas for more than three decades. An effort was made by Rogich and Arum to secure at least in-principle support from resort moguls in the neighborhood, including Steve Wynn, Phil Ruffin and Sheldon Adelson.
But the temporary arena concept collapsed like ... well, like a temporary arena being imploded.
“It had more to do with time than anything,” Rogich said. "When we talked about a time in March, it was too short a window to construct it. But we thought it made good sense as a way to compete with what’s going on in Dallas.”
Christenson also said the arena was a might costly for something that would be disassembled in five years: $1 million just to lay turf down on the New Frontier dirt, $4 million for the structure, $2 million, over time, to maintain.
“For a temporary facility, it’s a lot to invest,” Christenson said. The Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority doesn’t have that kind of money.
Arum has flatly accused MGM Mirage of protecting its two-arena monopoly (MGM Grand Garden and Mandalay Bay) and working to block the temporary-arena plan. To be sure, MGM Mirage did not sprint to the front of the line in support of the project. It has a couple of its own arenas to fill.
The setup for Saturday's Pacquiao-Clottey fight at Cowboys Stadium. More than 40,000 fans are expected.
“We have a situation where one company owns the two private arenas in Las Vegas, and that is not healthy for the other resorts or for the city,” Arum said, adding that MGM Mirage holds fight tickets for its own customers, and often fans resort to purchasing event tickets from scalpers at highly inflated prices.
Asked about the “monopoly” accusation, MGM Mirage President of Sports and Entertainment Richard Sturm said, “I must tell you, I don’t understand what that means. We’re in competition with other arenas in town. We’re in competition not only with arenas in town, but across the country.” He also said, of the temporary arena, “It would have been impossible to build a venue that quickly in that short a period of time. There’s no way a venue could have been built in time for an event.”
Two arena locations are still being studied: One on the old Wet ’n Wild site on the northern end of the Strip, and the other years-old concept on the east side of the Strip, behind Bally’s and Paris Las Vegas.
“Both, I’m cheering for,” Christenson said. “Both have a small component of public funding. But we need to be educated about what the value of a new arena would be. That is our biggest obstacle, educating the community. The Thomas & Mack Center has not cost a dime in taxpayer money and it’s brought in $2 billion. It has more than served its purpose, but it was built in 1983.
“It’s time to compete as a city.”
City vs. Stadium
What is certain: The region that encompasses Arlington, Dallas, Fort Worth, Irving and Grapevine does not offer the entertainment options those visiting Las Vegas enjoy. It’s a more lopsided contest than Pacquiao-Clottey.
For example: Two of the biggest night life draws in Dallas are Hooters and the Hard Rock Cafe, both more than 15 miles from Cowboys Stadium. By comparison, there is a Hard Rock Café and a Hooters resort within walking distance of MGM Grand, and those are just two of dozens of nightclub/restaurant options just on the corner of Tropicana Avenue and the Strip, where in proximity stand a half-dozen resort-casinos.
There are a few bars in an area south of Cowboys Stadium, known as Arlington Highlands, and a few restaurants that turn into nightclubs about three miles from the facility. But the tourist attractions that Arlington Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Wes Jurey enthusiastically points to are Six Flags amusement park, the Rangers Ballpark in Arlington (home of the Texas Rangers, just across the parking lot from Cowboys Stadium), and the Hurricane Harbor water park.
As one columnist who covers the night life entertainment scene in the area near Cowboys Stadium said: “Basically, it’s lame.”
Cowboys Stadium, in fight mode.
Fighters often attend post-bout parties at clubs in Las Vegas, elaborate nightspots like Pure and Tao. For his post-fight appearance, in which he performed a mini-concert (Arum calls Pacquiao the Sinatra of the Philippines), Pacquiao ventured to Rangers Ballpark, about the only business open near the stadium when he took the stage after 2 a.m.
The 1,500-room Gaylord Texan, a beautiful hotel that is comparable in quality and customer experience to the renovated Monte Carlo, boasts the Glass Cactus. Pretty nice spot. Saturday night’s entertainment was Dokken/Skid Row. But that club closes at 2 a.m., giving anyone who took in the bout very limited post-fight club time. When the fight’s over, typically, so is the night.
The unflattering comparison is hardly a criticism. As even Irvin conceded, “What (Dallas) doesn’t have is the 24-hour party opportunities Las Vegas has. To suggest anyone matches Las Vegas as Sin City would be outlandish.”
True. Upon returning to the host hotel, most of the media covering the fight and the event’s support staff seemed lost as to what to do. Fortunately Java Coast, an outpost of the coffeehouse chain, was open. There, you could grab a panini, a salad from the refrigerator or a $3 sugar cookie.
“It all comes down to, as a brand, do you want to own the city or the stadium?” Christenson said. “We have to own the city and all it has to offer.”
There are intangibles, too. As a venue, Cowboys Stadium enjoys a vibe. But so does Las Vegas, as always, as a destination.
The flight into Dallas-Fort Worth airport is unremarkable, like a flight into just about any airport in the country. But on the flight back to Las Vegas, the US Airways flight attendant excitedly tells the full cabin, “We are descending on Las Vegas! It is said that if you cross your seat belts, it brings good luck!” The tourists laugh, giddily.
Then you disembark, and are met with dozens of signs trumpeting what the city has to offer: Cher, Blue Man Group, Penn & Teller. Even Garth Brooks looms over baggage claim. His image is a reminder that in a contest with the owner of the Cowboys, Las Vegas has its own cowboy star, and always, a fighting chance in the bout between the Strip and the Screen.
Uh, Oh. Unemployment is going to shoot to 18.2%
Steve Wynn will have to charge $69 for his rooms.
Slots-O-Fun will have to bring back the Champaign fountain.
And, oh, boy the housing. 3/2/2 2400 sq ft homes: $48,500
I'm headed to Texas
Bobo from Brazil
This whole topic to me is a lot of much ado about nothing. Texas has this stadium. Big whoop.
Jerry and Gary are sitting at O'Hare Airport in Chicago and are thinking what to do with their spare time over the period of a year: Gary says, "There's a big boxing match in Texas in April." Jerry replies, "Uh-huh. Then there's Vegas." Gary says, "What about the Dixie Chicks performing at that stadium in July?" Jerry thinks and says, "Yeah -- sure -- then there's Vegas." Gary thinks a little bit more. "What about that enormous rodeo in Texas?" "Oh, yeah", Jerry says. "Sounds like a lot of fun. But, you know, we only have so much money for the year for travel and to play with. We can do a lot more in Vegas." "But what about those incredible screens they have?" Jerry turned to look his friend in the face. "And see... who? How many things are going on at any one time in Texas that you can't live without to have to see on giant screens? How big they gotta' be, anyway?" "But what about the experience!", Gary said with urgency. "Gary," Jerry said quietly as he put his hand on friend's shoulder, "Save your Texas money for a DVD, a big screen TV, CD, sound system, your own booze and have your own great experiences for the cost of one big Texas blow out." Gary thought about this for a moment. "But Vegas is, you know, it's just Vegas." "Just Vegas? Come on Gar, Vegas is the experience. Any time. Any day, Any year." Gary sighed and looked at the ground. "I just want to do something different this year, that's all." Jerry smiled. "Ok, ok. I get that. Fine. Let's plan on going to Texas for a couple of outings this year." The two friends shook hands. "By the way," Jerry said. "You know the place shuts down at 2 A.M., no gambling on an event - like you could be doing in Vegas, and forget that smoked salmon you love so much at a buffet -- if they have any buffets in their hotels anyway. Didn't think you were much for barbecue. Oh, that's right -- you have a fetish for big video screens. I mean if you're into big screens we can just go down to Best Buy and have them mount something covering your living room wall." "All right, all right, all right!" Gary screamed. "Be that way. We'll go to Vegas." Larry slowly nodded. "We could go to the dam this time" Gary snapped to attention. "They have a dam there?"...
Sounds to me like we're competing with a television screen, not a stadium. We could place a similar (LARGER) screen up against a mountain backdrop near Red Rock and create a venue that is of legends. You dont need the 1 billion stadium part when your looking at a tv screen.
All in a right to work state where unions don't force up the cost and a profit can be earned. How many fights do you think will come here after this showing? The world is more competitive and Nevada is going the wrong way.
Ignoring Texas is like the Big 3 automakers ignoring the Japanese imports in the 70's. If Las Vegas doesn't react accordingly, it is doomed!
nevada has "better people"?
wow...you haven't been reading this paper lately, huh?
crime is going through the roof in las vegas.
bush "ruined" america?
hmmm...ya, clinton and frank forcing banks to give out bad loans had NOTHING to do with our current situation, right?
and YA...i LOVE the fact texas executes garbage instead of giving them a 3rd, 4th, and 5th chance to break into homes and kill kids.
This stadium is attractive but Dallas in not Las Vegas. Dallas is a city of business and industry not a city of entertainment. But this does add an interesting twist to our communities desire to build a new stadium.
Obviously we need to start thinking about how to diversify our economy and a large stadium that could house our largest sporting events would be most desirable. Nevada already pays little in taxes thanks to us enshrining it in our constitution so I am sure we can devise a creative way of financing it that does not negatively impact our industries nor community.
how is building a stadium...creating MORE tourism-dependent jobs diversifying diversifying the vegas economy?
how dumb are you?
that's going to make it LESS diverse. vegas needs jobs that do not depend on entertainment or sports or conventions.
We don't need a 108,000 capacity stadium like Dallas, however, we do need two stadiums..one for Major League Baseball, and NFL Football. Forget about Basketball and Hockey for now. MLB and NFL are huge draws and with our weather, which is so nice 300 plus days a year, it would be very enticeing for people to move their families out to Las Vegas, Nevada..this time, not letting housing sky rocket like it did a few years ago. Take a look at Safeco Field and Quest Stadium in Seattle, or Camden Yards in Baltimore...(needs a dome in Las Vegas), but they are very nice ball parks. Sort through the gaming issues on these and lets get a ballpark or two!
I built a shopping center and a high school in Dallas. Actually Plano and Midlothian. Hated the place. Redneck dopes who somehow think that Bush was a good president.
They may nab a fight or two from Vegas, but so what? They refuse to allow casinos because of their Baptist mythology. As long as we have the Baptists and LDS mentality around, Vegas will be fine.
I once drove from Dallas to Shreveport. No booze, no fun, no nothing. I think they play Yahtzee on Saturday nights. Not to worry, people.
i can't believe someone actually thinks having a football team here is going to entice someone to move their family to las vegas.
bad schools?
no good jobs?
soaring crime rate?
ya, all those things will be overlooked because we have a football team?
the stupidity of americans is shocking. no wonder obama got elected.
Why not build Ballsy Stadium here in Las Vegas? So big to have the Super Bowl, NCAA football championship, a Final Four, Boxing, Rodeo's, maybe even an attached horse race track for racing and hosting a Breeders Cup. Think big, win big. Put JJ in his place. No need to charge $50 just to park your car to STAND for an event. He's milking for all it's worth while it's still hot.
Not good, but not as bad as they would want to let on. Take a look at things from this Stadium's perspective.
Pros:
Compared to Las Vegas, Dallas is more centrally located. With the price of tickets for an airplane flight, it's an easier destination to reach by car. And aside from that, DFW is a major transit hub, and the also have DAL as a backup airport for overflow. So transportation wise for massive events, they are more easily accessible to a certain extent travel-wise.
Cons:
For events of this size, Dallas may not have the lodging capacity compared with Las Vegas. That coupled with Vegas hotel prices will really do more damage to Dallas than benefit it, because they probably won't be as prepared to deal with the influx of tourists, let alone the negative experience is going to leave tourists with, preventing repeat business.
Now you've also got to factor in the entertainment side. Once the event is over, just what are people supposed to do? They're excited and will want to party. Vegas has 24/7 dining and entertainment to keep everyone occupied. A few bars and a couple of Waffle Houses just isn't going to cut it for the type of demographic they're trying to attract.
In the end, I think that the Cowboy's Stadium may certainly grab a few major events away from other venues. Personally I think Chicago and Orlando are more at risk than Las Vegas for losing out events to Dallas however. If the big draw is simply the giant monitors hanging above the stadium, Las Vegas and many others can easily install their own units and neutralize any *threat* of competition right away.
Exactly how will a 1.2 billion dollar stadium in Las Vegas ever recoup its cost? even with 60K extra visitors spending thousands per visit, the tax benefit would never even cover the interest. This kind of stadium needs a major league team with a strong following. The leagues will never allow this as long as we have sports betting. Guess which really brings in the dough? And, if the attendees are just watching big screens for the closeups anyway, an air-conditioned room serving booze probably is more fun anyway in 115 degree heat.
You don't need a 1.2 billion dollar complex to ace them out.
A 30,000 seater with over the top electronics like their huge TV's. But, add sound ports at each seat, 7 inch tv's on seat backs so patrons can watch horse racing or ball games, get a wolfgang puck (or other/others) family priced food system, Give it Vegas style glitz and promote it like its the 8th wonder of the world. Maybe $200Mil tops.
Anyone need to hire an idea man? This is just for starters.
wzairdofOz - I have a legitimate question for you. Not being insulting - not being snide - but after reading your oomments for a while you evidently really hate this place. You really hate the people here and the city, etc. Why are you here? Seriously - would you not be happier someplace else or are you actively trying to make it a place that you would like to stay in? I mean life is too short to be unhappy if you have any ability to live in a place to give you happiness. I'm just asking. I'd never ask anyone with differing views to leave and that's part of what makes this a powerful nation. The ability to speak on these forums is a testament to that. But the anger gets in the way of discussion for all sides> it also leads to ulcers, high blood pressure and heart attacks. I want you to hang around because you have views different than many others - including mine - so I'm glad you're getting things out of your system. I just think you'll do more good than harm by not attacking everything and everyone in NV.
wizardofOz - you're welcome.
We cannot be all things to all people...Our City, The American Way To Play, offers so much more than other destinations...from close proximity of the airport, to over 150,000 world class hotel rooms, fabulous casinos, shows, restaurants...all at a moderate price. Forget building another arena in Vegas...we have enough venues...Let Mr. Rogich suggest some marketing ideas that make sense, rather than "what happens in Vegas..." which has finally backfired on Las Vegas. If Mr. Rogich is such a flag waver, then have him run for Mayor and do something for us...rather than his self-interest groups, like R&R and others. We are always going to have competition, but when you add it all up, we have an enormous amount to offer...we just need to market it properly, and stop wasting foolish money on Convention Authority advertising that does not work...what happened to the name "convention" in the LVCVA...have they forgot...look at the published convention calendar...slim pickins'.
And when the event is ober you leave the stadium and you are now in...Dallas (Arlington). One of the lousiest cities in the lousiest state in the nation...good luck with that Jerry. Oh, and I dislike the Cowboys too!
Vegas is going to lose business to the Dallas facility. Don't believe that all the people that attended events in Vegas in the past were happy to be here - there wasn't necessarily a choice but to be here because no other place could provide what Vegas could provide. Now there is a place that can out do Vegas at least for some events and many people will be happy to be going elsewhere for those events. Some of these will be BIG EVENTS - the kind that in the past has brought in BIG MONEY to Vegas.
About the Mitsubishi Electric Diamond Vision Scoreboards at Dallas Cowboys Stadium
Center-Hung - Sideline Displays (2)
Width 159' 7-1/16"
Height: 71' 4-3/4"
Total LEDs: 10,584,064
Pixel-Pitch:20mm
Screen Area: 11,393 square feet
Power Consumption: 635 Kilowatts
Screen Weight: Approx. 170,000 lbs
Video Source: 1080p HDTV
Resolution: 2,176 x 4,864
Installation start date: October, 2008
Installation completion date: June 1, 2009
Center-Hung - End Zone Displays (2)
Width: 50' 4-3/4"
Height:28' 6-3/4"
Total LEDs: 2,088,960
Pixel-Pitch: 16mm
Screen Area: 1,439 square feet
Power Consumption: 80 Kilowatts
Screen Weight: Approx. 25,000 lbs
Video Source:1080p HDTV
Resolution: 1,080 x 1,920
Installation start date: October, 2008
Installation completion date: June 1, 2009
I for one would welcome Texas secession, the average IQ in the nation would go up 10 points!
The NFR belongs in Texas. Las Vegas has nothing to do with cowboys and western heritage. When you think of cowboys you think of Texas and Oklahoma. Jerry will make the NFR bigger than it is now. As a Vegas local I use to enjoy the quiet time in December before the holidays. It was like the old days. Less traffic, Las Vegas felt like a small town again. The T&M is a totally inadequate facility anyway. I hope the rodeo boys heed the call and move the NFR back to where it belongs.
Dear Serious,
When I ran my own business, we used to have a saying that went; "if we're not growing we're dying".
It proved to be true for many prosperous years until the outrageously unfair competition created by our nations 'fair trade' policies put our sales into a death spiral.
Because of its special reliance on tourism, Las Vegas has similar vulnerabilities.
With hard times forcing so many new areas to compete for the Vegas customer, same old won't fuel the growth this area needs. Maybe the current venues are not adequate, I'm not taking your word that they are. Not in times like these.
If anyone can translate the following Texas idiom, I will send you ten bucks. Really.
"Ah moan goat sto". Sadly, if you understand it, you are just another Texas dope. Living in a polluted sweaty Hell hole. Just leave your address, please.
My fiance and I are both lucky enough to have full time jobs with good benefits in this city and we are still moving out of here ASAP after we get married. If you can get out, get out. Don't sit around waiting for the next downfall.
I travel to events to be near the action not to watch it on a giant screen.
Dear newsy97:
We have three of the largest convention and trade show venues in the world (Las Vegas convention Center, Mandalay Bay Convention and Exhibition Center, and the Sands Expo Center)as well as hundreds of thousands of square feet of convention space inside the casino hotels, in addition to Cashman Center, the Las Vegas Speedway, Cashman Field, MGM Garden, Thomas and Mack, and countless Showrooms. How much more can we afford to build...we are not going to win all of the time...to build a temporary new facility to seat 35,000 persons made no sense. Our main industry, and our focus is the visitor and hospitality industry...and, a huge portion of this is the convention and trade show business and the international tourist. Times are economically challenging, to say the least, but to spend $90 Million on advertising "what happens in Vegas..." is totally ludicrous...this expenditure needs to be re-directed. The LVCVA spends $90 Million, and the Nevada Development Authority spends/only has $6 Million.
wizardofOz:
Seriously, turn Caps Lock off and learn to write like a half-way intelligent adult. What are you? A 14 year old trying to text message? I can't take someone seriously who feels that their message is so worthless that they have to type in all capital letters in order to be heard. Whatever you're hoping to say just got invalidated by how you tried to say it.
its definitely a legitimate risk to certain businesses within our state, but we'll have to see how it plays out. Losing UFC could be large,
- Mark Szczygiel
That stadium would be a great place for the rodeo national finals.
Oklahoma City MADE the NFR. The RCA (before it was the PRCA) was thrilled to play at the crap-ass State Fairgrounds Arena, and later the Myriad, to packed houses and a city that loved and respected them. Then Vegas came along with a tubfull of cash and off they went. They got the money, but it sure seems like Las Vegas has never respected them.
Ray Ackerman (a fine and honorable man) was the Sig Rogich of 40 years ago; he worked soo hard to keep the NFR in Oklahoma City, but lost out. I will never forget the heartbreak on his face when he picked up his car from my shop the day after the announcement that the NFR was going to Las Vegas. I don't feel much sympathy for Las Vegas about the NFR.
Jerry Jones success is the end result of where Las Vegas is failing. Cities, and regions, are joining in through cooperative taxation to build better infrastructure and facilities for the common good. Oklahoma City has a better arena than any in Las Vegas; it is 100% publicly funded. We took a chance and now we have an NBA team, thanks to hard work and luck. Las Vegas does not have the population base for MLB or the NFL. No chance. It has the size for the NBA, but David Stern is the most powerful commisioner in North America and he has made it clear that he doesn't really want to put a team there. The arena is the biggest problem, among many. Any existing arena is Las Vegs is not an option, you must build a new one. The NHL in a renovated Thomas & Mack is the only possibility and that'll require more cooperation that has been shown in Las Vegas.
Look at cities with "buzz", or are listed in some of those "High Quailty of Life" lists in the magazines, etc. The common thread is an effort to work together and pay for improvements through increased and fair taxes, knowing that it will pay off in the long run.
...Las Vegas needs a professional football stadium and baseball stadium...they need a professional football team and baseball team....they need to get into sports in a big way....what about the summer Olympics ...I cant think of a better place to go to then Las Vegas for the Olympics....lots of room... people from all over the world would come here to see Las Vegas and there is so much to do here.....
The "F O" in simmons strikes out again.
ha ha.
Guys, we had the chance to hold that huge boxing match but we (MGM) blew it. Arum requested to hold it here but MGM bosses turned him down because they don't want to piss off Golden Boy production. Big mistake! It's not only the place or venue that attracts people here, it's more of how we give excellent customer service like the good old days.
Seriously stevem....two years into Obama and you can't stop talking about Bush and clinton.....and how Everything can be blamed on democrats. Good god sir, you are so one dimensional..give it a rest.
Realistically, this can't be ignored. JJones is busting his butt thinking of new ideas to fill that stadium. Our convention authority better start taking note. If NFR goes, so will many many more jobs. Try to diversify, yes, but let's not forget what Vegas was built for.....in the desert...... ENTERTAINMENT.
We need a huge stadium to compete. We have outgrown T&M.
I say build a new stadium for National Finals Rodeo but not with taxpayer money
Rodeo will be the next event heading to Texas.
Texas has money up the a-s
Stevem are you having a bad day?
Longtimer Las Vegas took the entertainment away from NY.I just wish the would change the entertainment more often.The same things over and over.
newsy
why would anyone hire you as an idea man?
you just described a larger sports book WOW real forward thinking
peace out
Another "sky is falling" report from the media. Get real, Texas is great, but it's no Las Vegas. If you travel somewhere to see a fight, then hang out in a bar to honky tonk, that's great. Las Vegas has so much more than a boring little town like Dallas. Relax people, the media loves hype. Look at the fool they got elected to run this country deeper into the ground.
Really? The stadium isn't even in Dallas? No kidding, wow! So one would have to drive into the super cool hip city of Dallas? Cool! I get to fight traffic with how many other thousands of people to get to Dallas? I'd rather walk out of say, the Grand Garden, and have gaming, shows, food, clubs and other night life without ever getting back into my car. Go bask in their arts district, I'll take Las Vegas any day son.
"A lot of nightlife regions (Downtown Fort Worth, the West End, Deep Ellum)." All 3 regions? Now that's a night life!
If you don't like it here, go back to Dallas. It's obvious you are making more money here than you did in Big D.
Let Texas have boxing, its barbaric anyhow.
Yeah, you're right, no one has ever been shot in Dallas, (except President Kennedy). Smut peddlers? What is that? I've only seen some folks standing in bright colored t-shirts trying to hand out cards, I was uninterested in what it was and kept walking,(The Tahiti Village people are WAY more annoying). You must have taken their cards and realized it wasn't for you, I'm sure they would have taken them back.
I do agree with you about the kids and their "clubs", (the majority of the gangsters left by the late 80's) We need more Police on the Strip, and Fremont to clear them out from loitering.
Come on now, there are tons of shows and entertainers here, take your pick. I personally am not a Donny and Marie guy, It's obvious that people are or Donnie and Marie would be down the road. I'm not bagging on Dallas or anywhere in Texas, It is a very cool state, with great people as well.
I am very biased to Las Vegas, I know these Casinos owe me nothing, yet they are very good with the comps. It's a business, I pay for the entertainment of Gaming. I love the high of winning, that's my drug. I set aside money to lose, never plan on winning, if I do it's just a bonus. I am paying for a service, so technically not losing anything, a lot of people don't see it that way. Suckers are the ones who think they are coming here to make money, that's the difference.
Oh yeah, not everyone can eat at Joel Robuchon, a Michelin 3-star restaurant, so the Rain Forest Cafe, Nathans Hot Dogs and everything in between is available, within easy walking distance. This of course being one small example in one area of a hotel, there is plenty of that to go around at most properties. As for the clubs, it's obvious that they are doing great business. Gee, one of them might be evicted from Planet Hollywood cause they are having a hard time making ends meet with an operating cost of almost a million dollars a month? I don't go clubbing, but I could guess that cover charges and drink prices are ridiculous. If people want to pay it, then that's great.
My expectations aren't low by any means, the Casinos on the strip are beautiful, and fun to be in, (there are a FEW exceptions). Fremont needs some work, they aren't all like the Nugget. But I still love the Gaming on Fremont, do wish they had better smoke handlers. Call me a clown, I don't care, as long as I have this town! Viva Las Vegas!
Oh yeah, just remembered, actually 4 people have been shot in Dallas. Kennedy, Connolly, Tippit and Oswald. Otherwise, Dallas is perfect.
Las Vegas numbers are down because the country is in a bind right now. States like Arizona, Nevada, and Florida make their money on tourism. I don't need the media to figure that one out. You think people aren't coming to Las Vegas cause of a couple of people handing out cards, or a shooting or stabbing? Yeah, that makes sense. One of the most corrupt and violent cities in this country is our nations capital. People still go there to check it out.
When the rest of the country gets back on track, Las Vegas will be right back into it's glimmer. Yeah, it sucks, but when you rely on the tourists, it's a tough pill to swallow.
Las Vegas is definitly in danger of losing some of its great events to other cities. Building a new arena in the center of the strip would not only bring new jobs to us (at a time when we definitly need them) but also secure many of the events that make us great!