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StumbleAs a result of an honor code violation, two prominent BYU student-athletes have withdrawn from school. One is Harvey Unga — a senior running back and the Cougars' all-time leading rusher. The other is women’s basketball player Keilani Moeaki, who is Unga's on-again, off-again girlfriend. Unga, who has 3,455 rushing yards in three seasons at BYU, will now attempt to enter the NFL's supplemental draft, which is held in mid-July. In a 59-21 victory over UNLV at Sam Boyd Stadium last season, Unga racked up 152 yards and three scores on 20 carries.
BYU leading rusher Unga withdraws from school following honor code violation
(via Provo Daily Herald) · April 16, 2010 · 10:18 PM
Discussion: 32 comments so far...
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ha
what was the nature of the violation
They were caught holding hands out of wedlock and irresponsibly drinking large quantities of Red Bull.
This is one of the most ignorant things I have heard in a long time. The cult didn't like that fact that he had premartial sex so now they are going to "investigate" before deciding whether or not to let him back in. If I was Unga I would tell the school where to stick it. There is no privledge to play at BYU. But do you REALLY think they are going to tell their best player he can't come back? And risk not winning the Mtn West? Come on now. Unga, go handle your business with Keilani and enter the supp. NFL draft.
Does the church really think that none of their "worthy" members haven't had premarital sex? Haha
I am not a member of the LDS church. These two athletes knew the rules of the University before they enrolled. He could have played anywhere, but he chose BYU. Pretty sad people these days care more about football than morals and an education. And Vegas guy, your use of the word ignorant is not even used properly here. http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/i... By definition of the word, this would make you "ignorant". But I am sure you meant to say silly, and not ignorant. Don't be upset that you just got schooled. :)
Here's the honor code from BYU. I wonder what part of the code was violated? I'm guessing some pre-martial hanky panky...
Be honest
Live a chaste and virtuous life
Obey the law and all campus policies
Use clean language
Respect others
Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse
Participate regularly in church services
Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards
Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code
Jimmyhoofa- pre-marital hanky panky would fall under failure to "live a chase and virtuous life"... not that hard to figure out.
Vegasguy80- why would it be so hard to believe that there are "worthy" LDS members who remain sexually abstinent before marriage? Surprisingly, the majority of faithful members do save themselves for marriage. Sexual purity is at the core of most religions out there buddy, not something obscure. Also, it is a privilege to play at BYU (look at the top 25 college football ratings over the past few years and you will find BYU up there).
Now for the "Cult" accusers: The use of the word "cult" has surfaced in late half of the 20th century and especially in the 1980's and 90's. You only refer to the LDS church as a cult since you have failed to gain nothing more than a surface impression of the church. Furthermore, are you only a Mormon hater since LDS doctrine doesn't fall in line with what YOU perceive to be evangelical Christianity? The Mormon church, if you need to group it as something, would fall under a "New Religious Movement"...That is what most theology and religion scholars conclude.
Follow the rules. It's that simple Unga.
Usually the rules are bent or broken at universitites to accomodate athletes, especially star athletes who break rushing records. That is not the case here.
I am not Mormon, but I wish these rules were followed by society at large. As it stands now, take a look around. This Valley needs an enema.
The Mormon Church is a cult because of its origins. It was founded by a philandering polygamist reject who claimed many ridiculous and implausible things about history (look up the "civilization" Mormons think existed in north America), and was eventually killed by an angry mob. I am not a Christian.
Christianity= World Religion
Mormonism=Cult
I would hope this isn't about sex. The Mormon Church started on sexual taboos ,think back to Joseph Smith and starting polygamy and then Brigham Young continuing it until the U.S. government made him stop. These people are so two faced and everybody sees it. There's an old saying when we went to school , when alchohol shows up at a party the Mormon girls put thier undies back on and leave.
youngrebelfan40
If the Mormon church is a cult based on orgin because of claims on ridiculous and implausible events then you could argue all religions fall under this definition. When was the last time you saw someone part the red sea or raise the dead. Wasnt Christ also killed by an angry mob because they believed he was heretical during his time because he called himself the son of God. If you say Christianity=World Religion and Mormonism=Cult than youngreblefan40=fail
"These people are so two faced and everybody sees it"
It makes me sad that people like fedup2here label and generalize people of the LDS faith; and then belittle the "girls" of the faith with another generality/ irresponsible comment.
Listen, I'm LDS and I'd hate for jerks like this guy to judge the whole of my religion by my actions alone...I don't think he'd judge them well....but I guarantee you that same prejudiced jerk can't stand when he's generalized in any way.
Aretha Franklin had it right....R-E-S-P-E-C-T, you either have it or you're a closed-minded fool. Bring on the comments about, "Hey, LDS are the closed minded-fools" or "If the Mormons didn't judge everybody else, we wouldn't judge them"...That line of thinking is why we are where we are....there's horrible human beings that are LDS and horrible human beings that aren't LDS.
Its sad how predictable it's become when a story like this is written about BYU or Mormonism, that the comments are like this. Just like when somebody with a Spanish sounding name, or somebody black does something negative and its reported on this site....you can predict the racists will be out in force. Prejudice is prejudice..it's ugly no matter how it rears its head.
youngrebelfan40- Looking at the origins of the LDS church, your idea of a cult is still wrong. It is not a cult since the founding principles were grouped with millennialism, restorationism and primitivism. Others such as the cambellites, shakers, Christian science and Jehovah Witnesses were just as influenced by the times, as Joseph Smith.
Now you say that you aren't a christian but still feel competent in examining a christian religion?
First, you mention polygamy. I could go on with what justification any lds member would bring up but you fail to recognize that Shakers and the Oneida had sex related doctrines. Did you ever think that polygamy wasn't the "Hollywood-ized" image that you might make it out to be? Look at the primary sources (not the latest episode of " big love") and you will see it was far from being sex based. (look at John C. Bennett, who was kicked out of the church for taking attempting to make it sex based).
Also, you make mention of the fallacy of the Book of Mormon. First of all, your argument only goes as deep as someone who is converted and says it is divine. (there are academic studies that both prove and disprove the book, so....take what you read objectively ok buddy)
Furthermore, by bringing up the fact that Smith was killed by a mob doesn't do anything to prove a point. Your mistake is in assuming that the legal and civil norms that exists today (a smooth judicial system and equal/fair representation), existed back in the 1830's and 40's. This wasn't so, the United States was only growing into what we are today. States had more control and political influence, and threats to this which meant more to the mobs than anything doctrinally. Also, Mobs attacked not only mormons, but catholics, jews and other immigrants during this time.
Now you say that since Christianity is a world religion and that Mormonism is a cult. You can even look up on Wikipedia "new religious movements" which is academically separate from a cult and you will find mormonism. Also, how would you label other evangelicals, which have gone through many break offs and schisms even in American history?
When you look at any religion, first look at it from an "insiders" perspective. That is how you would study or judge any subject rather than looking too biased or judgmental.
Sorry for the long discussion on religion...but the cult accusers brought it up.
This is very sad for those young people. And let us not bring up race. Believers of color could not even darken the doorways of that faith, until some time ago?! They were probobly wrong but Christ is in the forgiving business!!!
"Others such as the cambellites, shakers, Christian science and Jehovah Witnesses were just as influenced by the times, as Joseph Smith."
All of those religions are cults. And I have objectively studied (at least I hope) the claims made in the Mormon holy book, and find them ridiculouly implausible. Even Mormon Apologists' varying expanations are circumstantial at best and fallacious at worst.
You are right, many evanglical movements are cults, and I consider them as such. Also, Wikipedia isn't exactly the greatest source of what is a cult or not.
Many Christian theologians have dismissed Mormonism as outside of thier religion and a cult, and seeing as they are the worlds leading experts on the matter I tend to agree with them.
Judging from an "insiders" perpective would simply destroy all semblance of objectivity, and make an investigation useless.
Finally, I realize the Mormon religion isn't sex based, but in an objective view you cannot simply ignore its place in the "holy" Joseph Smith's life. Nor can you dismiss the blatant institutional racism that was present in the Mormon church from its inception to only about 30-40 yrs ago.
Once again, I believe your use of the word cult is being misused. Those groups mentioned were once again, part of the millennialism movement, which also was at the forefront of mainstream christianity in the 1800's. I also think that writing any religion off as a "cult" is simply failure to understand the religion and why people choose to follow it. Plus labeling a "cult" only shows that a certain religion doesn't align with what YOU (key word "YOU") perceive to be mainstream christianity. Any religious scholar would agree that religion has evolved since it's primitive days.
you might want to look at Gary E. Kessler's book "Studying Religion: an introduction through cases"- Studying from an insider's perspective doesn't mean you have to accept the faith, rather it allows you to ask "Why would someone believe this and answer (not in an apologetics fashion) why events occur. Kessler talks about how true scholarship involves balancing an outsider's and insider's perspective equally (Something i fear you haven't done since you tend to look at the mormon church as a giant laughing stock) In short, it is relieving whatever biases you have in order to give a fair study. How fair is it to any religion when you focus on the negative? I for one have studied in depth the good, the bad and the ugly of mormon history and still don't have a reason to burn members at the stake.
Just as many christian theologians have dismissed Mormonism, many have concluded that it is part of mainstream Christianity. There are only a few clashing "doctrinal" issues.
Sorry, have more to say....
Now as far as the "Experts"- try reading studies published by Jan Shipps (a methodist) she is considered one of the best in mormon religious studies.Also, rodney starks "a theory of revelation" might help. Even experts are subject to biases and any scholar will acknowledge this struggle.
Now the "holy" Joseph Smith and his place with polygamy comment. Check out Kathryn M. Daynes "More Wives than One:Transformation of the Mormon Marriage system" and also J. Spencer Fluhman's "a subject that can bear discussion"- Not something change your mind, but level the playing field with you.
Now lastly, you obviously have a bunch of ammo concerning multiple topics you are willing to fire...but i will go as far to answer back to the racism claim. Starting from Joseph Smith, when he ran for president in 1844 (most of which lead to his assassination), He included abolition of slaves by 1850 in his platform. He also launched missionary efforts among the indians (part of the reason mob tension kept building up, anti-mormons were the ones fearing indian integration in culture). Lastly with the "revelation" that gave all men(regardless of color) full rights to priesthood is not as blatant as you make it sound. The civil rights movements were just coming to a closure just a few years before. Also, in mainstream american christianity up until the 1970's most religions were equally exclusive especially in the baptist movements in the south. Look up "churches: black manifesto, this document shows the disparity with "white" mainstream Christianity in america. Not justifying this in any way, but I would say that being a conservative church, the LDS church was right on time.
Now i wish the LDS church could have a history like the Azusa street revivals and the Pentecostals of today (which attracted racial minorities-) but who knows, you might write them off as a cult.
Now as far as the "Experts"- try reading studies published by Jan Shipps (a methodist) she is considered one of the best in mormon religious studies.Also, rodney starks "a theory of revelation" might help. Even experts are subject to biases and any scholar will acknowledge this struggle.
Now the "holy" Joseph Smith and his place with polygamy comment. Check out Kathryn M. Daynes "More Wives than One:Transformation of the Mormon Marriage system" and also J. Spencer Fluhman's "a subject that can bear discussion"- Not something change your mind, but level the playing field with you.
Now lastly, you obviously have a bunch of ammo concerning multiple topics you are willing to fire...but i will go as far to answer back to the racism claim. Starting from Joseph Smith, when he ran for president in 1844 (most of which lead to his assassination), He included abolition of slaves by 1850 in his platform. He also launched missionary efforts among the indians (part of the reason mob tension kept building up, anti-mormons were the ones fearing indian integration in culture). Lastly with the "revelation" that gave all men(regardless of color) full rights to priesthood is not as blatant as you make it sound. The civil rights movements were just coming to a closure just a few years before. Also, in mainstream american christianity up until the 1970's most religions were equally exclusive especially in the baptist movements in the south. Look up "churches: black manifesto, this document shows the disparity with "white" mainstream Christianity in america. Not justifying this in any way, but I would say that being a conservative church, the LDS church was right on time.
Now i wish the LDS church could have a history like the Azusa street revivals and the Pentecostals of today (which attracted racial minorities-) but who knows, you might write them off as a cult.
theloagapi>youngrebelfan40
youngrebelfan40 please define what you believe a cult to be. I find your explainations for the momonism being a cult as ridiculously implausable. You have only skirted around some issues you most likely googled and cannot come up with anything substantial and in depth. Jewish and Islamic religions have a history with polygamy with Judism eventually outlawing the practice. Islam still allows it in most countries but it is prohibited in modern arab states. Would you call Judism and Islam both cults?
WTF, take your religious talk to a circus. Unga, come play for the Rebels and drink coffee!
Football people. Football.
ha ha, sorry about that- To bad Unga can't transfer to another D-1 school without sitting out a year...I think they will let him back in after a while... they did the same thing with his cousin a few years back.
I figure the religious aspect of this issue has been beaten to death, so I'll comment on it this way. In this day and age, I think it is probably a little naive of BYU to think that Unga is the only athlete at BYU who is (I have to assume as they are being tight-lipped about the details) being "active" outside of marriage. I'm not attacking Mormon beliefs or the idea that remaining chaste until marriage is an awful idea, I'm just saying that times have changed and that is not the common practice.
As far as Unga being dismissed from the team, the issue has nothing to do with the Mormon religion, but simply that the BYU Honor Code is in place, has been in place for a long time and was obviously in place when Unga signed on to play at BYU. He violated a rule (as antiquated as the rule may be according to some) and he knew the consequences of his actions.
All of that being said, I would be a bit surprised is this doesn't blow over and Unga doesn't end up back on the team. From a football perspective, they are going to be breaking in freshman quarterback and have high expectations for their team. Losing arguably the best back in the MWC would certainly make that a bit more of a challenge.
I know many mormoms that I would take a bullet for. And as a christian. I know christians many for whom I would not. Even if you could explain away the racial doctrine.I don't know what Smith said, but that church did not allow blacks the same freedoms in that church, as they wished from the world! They apologized later, no problem. But how do you call yourself a Christian? When Christ on the cross, said "IT IS FINISHED"! Oh you go out and write extra biblical stuff(the book of mormon)? When the book of Revelations says not to do so! That is when the questions arise. Don't really know to make it more simple than that. You are telling our Lord and Savior that he left out this, this and this!
They got caught without thier magic underwear on. I'm broken hearted, what a joke.
For a definition of cult check out Dr. Charles Braden's "These Also Believe".
"A cult, as I define it, is any religious group which differs significantly in some one or more respects as to belief or practice from religious groups which are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total culture"
Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults"
"A cult may be defined as a group of people gathered about a specific person or person's interpretation of the Bible, in which contain many major historical deviations from historic Christianity"
There you have it. By both scholarly definitions, Mormonism is a CULT.
Correction: in Martin's quote delete "historical"
"mainstream american christianity up until the 1970's most religions were equally exclusive especially in the baptist movements in the south"
---------------------------------------------------------
That contention is correct, but there is a major difference. Racism or anything that could be interpreted as such is found nowhere in the Bible. In the supposedly holy Book of Mormon(and I quote the Ontario Consultants of religious tolerance) :
"In 2 Nephi 30:6, the the Book of Mormon as originally translated (or written; opinions differ) by Joseph Smith said that if Lamanites[dark skinned] accepted the true gospel,
'...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people.'
After 1981, the term 'white and delightsome' was changed to read 'pure' -- an unusual action for a book considered to be inspired by God in its original version."
Catdaddy- First of all, your racial accusations aren't even worth replying to since i have already addressed them in a prior post. I was perplexed with what you said... " You are telling our Lord and Savior that he left out this, this and this!"
It isn't what the Good Lord and Savior left out brother, I believe it is what people changed.
Just look at these people:
Judiazers/(adoptionists),Docetists ,Iohannians, Marionites,Pre-Catholic Justin Martyr, Gnostics
Also, look at Romans 16:17 and you will see one of many divisions hitting during the times of the apostles.(there are many more references in the bible if you are interested.)
Now as far as revelations go, scholars suggest that the Bible isn't exactly in chronological order. John was warning the christians not to add to his revelation concerning the last days (the book of revelation). Also, Deuteronomy 4:2, Moses gives a similar scripture about adding to his revelation.
Now are you referring to The book of mormon adding to the bible or the JST? Either way, I fear if your interpretation of "adding" to the bible is correct... A lot of names are gonna be missing from the book of life (look at how many versions of the bible there are alone in the english language, even Thomas Jefferson and Noah Webster had revised the bible on there own.)
Now Youngrebel- Thanks for finally including what your definition of a cult. However, anyone can construe that definition to fit any one who as reformed christianity (including Martin Luther or Calvin). So I will just save cult (in accusing any relious group) for those like the branch davidians and what not.
Now as far as the lamanite "curse", referring to the site " Ontario Consultants of religious tolerance" to learn about another religon is about as reliable and credible as wikipedia. If you are going to try and discuss Mormon Literature, first see what the general authorities (church leaders) and actual Mormon Scholars say (Jan Shipps is another one i already recommended)in interpreting before relating to other websites (unless they are university sponsored). Then feel free to counter argue what you want.
And about the Change to the Book of Mormon- Joseph Smith advised his close translators not to change the "essence" of any revelation.(this being the meaning of the revelations not necessarily the words.
I agree with Mike, the religious issues are being beaten to death and I see this just turning into a "last post wins"- I have had fun discussing-
Maybe we will start this up again when BYU plays UNLV in football next year....well, we can wait till basketball season to make it more of competitive and interesting (kidding)
Glad you added in that last sentence theloagapi. As a dedicated Rebel fan, its tough for me to talk trash during football season. Give us a few years under Coach Hauck, then we'll talk.
Unga and his girl friend broke the code rules.
I'm not L.D.S. and glad the school dismissed them
No, when Unga comes to UNLV we will destroy BYU. Im calling it ;)