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Dan Bickley of the Arizona Republic believes Las Vegas might be in the running for the Phoenix Coyotes of the National Hockey League. Here is Bickley's recent blog on the topic: Whispers on the wind, Part II: Jerry Reinsdorf is not the savior of the Coyotes. He's the figurehead of an investment group that could move the team to Las Vegas if serious concessions aren't forthcoming from the city of Glendale. So even if Tuesday's bankruptcy hearing shuts down Canadian poacher Jim Balsillie and his attempt to move the team to Hamilton, Ontario, the Coyotes are still on thin ice. Think about it. Commissioner Gary Bettman has already moved this year's NHL's award ceremony to the Palms Hotel as part of a new three-year deal with the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. I'm guessing he'd love to be the first major professional sports team entering the new frontier of Sin City, and Las Vegas would love to have him. Besides, if Reinsdorf was really doing this out of some sense of community and local pride, wouldn't he have spoken out by now? Publicly, Bettman seems confident that concessions have been negotiated with the city of Glendale. On May 6, he described Phoenix as a market worth saving, stating "we believe, with new ownership and with accomodations the city of Glendale is prepared to make, we think we can succeed." According to one source, those concessions amount to an annual subsidy of nearly $15 million. In an open letter published by The Arizona Republic, outgoing owner Jerry Moyes seemed to reference the city's desire to help out a new ownership group, and wondered why he couldn't catch that kind of break. "We understand (Glendale) started talking directly to the NHL and potential investors," Moyes wrote. "It may be fair for the city to have discussions, but it would not be fair for the city to strike a deal with outsiders that has not been offered to me." Recently, Glendale city manager Ed Beasley wouldn't confirm or deny that a deal has been offered to the Reinsdorf group. "The term concessions has been placed out there," Beasley said. "There are no concessions. There are concepts and ideas." Here's what I think: Eventually, the NHL will let Balsillie and his Blackberry money into their fraternity. But they are not letting him purchase an existing franchise, and they are not letting him in the back door. Instead, they will hammer him for the price of an expansion franchise, thereby pocketing millions of additional dollars. Meanwhile, if our hockey team gets a lifeline in Tuesday's court proceedings, don't get your hopes up. The scant gathering of fans who showed up for a rally on Saturday was more of an indictment than anything else. Once the lid comes off these alleged private negotiations between the city Glendale and the NHL, the citizens who don't consume hockey are going to be livid. And then it could be time to do what many Phoenicians do when desperate for cash: Las Vegas, here we come.
Las Vegas Coyotes of the NHL? Possible, says Bickley
(via Arizona Republic) · May 24, 2009 · 6:32 PM
Discussion: 21 comments so far...
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very few people that LIVE in vegas have enough money to buy season tickets and keep a professional sports team in business.
the wranglers play great hockey and have really creative marketing and on a good night it's maybe 80% full.
it will just be an excuse for the contractors to make a ton of money off the construction of the arena and for politicians to say "it will bring in 'x' amount of new jobs!" and dumb people will believe that even though they will be $8 and $9 per hour jobs.
Once again talk of a higher level professional sports teams in Las Vegas.
We already have 2 professional sports teams in LasVegas ie. The Wranglers and the 51s. If the seats were 100% full every game I could more readily see the contemplation of a higher level team here.
Price of the tickets would also present a problem. I understand from folks who have attended high level pro events the ticket can start at 70-80 dollars and go up to 150.
The tickets for the Wranglers where I sit are 17.50 and they are great seat, course I don't think there is a bad seat in the Orleans Arena any way.
The point being, Las Vegans aren't paying the low price now, what make these investors think that they(Las Vegans) will pay 4-10 times that?
Yeahh I don't see it either..Despite a solid regular season attendance average that is in the upper echelon of the ECHL, we can't get 5K butts in the seats for a Conference Final game without some major free ticket promotion. (Though I do realize that very few of the Wrangler playoff games this season fell on the weekend, and that took a toll on attendance.) I would guess that the Jets/Coyotes/? will be headed north, not west...
Minor League failures don't equate to Major League failures. This is simply not a market that will meaningfully support minor league anything. Games against the likes of the Rangers, Red Wings, Black Hawks, Ducks, Kings and Canadiens will sell out - even at the prices LPN4LIFE noted. My concern is what kind of turnout will there be for the Thrashers, Predators, Lightning and similar non-marquee teams.
A lot of those wrangler tickets were comped to people with Boyd players cards. I don't think a pro team can make it in Vegas except for an NBA team. That would provide a lot of jobs for police, security guards, hospital emergency room staff, etc. Also, gun shops would increase their sales of .25 cal ammo. Baggy pants sales and "grill" sales would increase 27%
Well said, mred. I wouldn't expect this town to roll out the welcome mat for the NBA after the behavior displayed during the All-Star game. I wouldn't say, Bill, that the Wranglers are a minor league failure, as they aren't going anywhere anytime soon, according to ownership..I looked up the numbers for 08-09, with an average of 4,621 per game, we're solidly in the middle (i stand corrected) of the ECHL pack (Stockton lead the league with 6,218 and Johnstown sits at the bottom with 2,212. We did see several teams fold under the weight of the bad economy this year (Phoenix, Fresno, Augusta, Dayton, Mississippi) but I think that overall this was a good thing for the ECHL, as those teams were weak and just needed to be weeded out, to possibly return when times are better. I am no minor league sports expert, and I don't have access to the actual numbers regarding the team's profit margin, but having been to the majority of the games at the Orleans since game 1 in 2003, I would not call the team a failure by any means.
I would buy season tickets. I'd love for an NHL team to be in Las Vegas!
The Phoenix Coyotes moving to Las Vegas is a pipe dream
It won't happen nor will an N.B.A. team land here
As long as they get the team here before the NBA sets up the NHL can work in Vegas. Its comical how people who don't like hockey just badmouth the sport and say it can't work. The sport has the best fans and the most logical financial model of all sports except the NFL. The NBA has an amazing level of viewers/fans worldwide, but an insanely low level of fans who would actually spend a dime to watch a game. The NHL is exactly the opposite and that is why it works everywhere it is set up in the right location to draw in corporate dollars. Glendale just learned the hard way you can't support anything but the NFL unless you have a lot of close-by corporate buyers.
And just where are they going to play?
What everyone has to realize is that all these pro teams are using the threat of moving to Las Vegas to get sweetheart deals out of the cities they're already in.
I think a NHL team would survive in Vegas as long as the arena, which would still have to be built, is close to The Strip.
(A friend of mine recently informed me that the Orleans Arena, while stunning and beautiful, is too small to support a NHL franchise... though for all I know, they could be wrong on that one.)
A Vegas-based NHL team's games would become the Cirque du Soleil show for hockey fans everywhere; an attraction for tourists from hockey-deprived centers. It would be one more reason for people to come to our town, stay in our hotels, eat at our restaurants, and support our economy.
An NBA team would have a similar effect. :)
While it is easy to point to the less than stellar attendance at Wranglers games, there really is no comparing their league, caliber and star talent with that of the NHL.
The NHL Awards are being held here this year but even that isn't an ideal gauge for the market, with tickets priced at $500 (which is about 10x the price of a seat to the average game) for an (admittedly-exclusive) awards show.
(The average ticket price for an NHL game was $49.66 n 2008.)
While sure, deep down I believe "Balsillie and his Blackberry money" should be allowed to return the Coyotes to Canadian soil (the team originally did come from Winnipeg), I would love to see them in Vegas more than any other American city.
can we name the team "the foreclosures"?
so let's assume this guy gets what he wants and moves the coyotes to Las Vegas. What happens in the future when he does the exact same thing to Las Vegas and holds this community hostage by threatening to move his team unless taxpayers kick down and provide him with a new arena? Shouldn't these obscenely rich team owners take care of their own stadium/arena needs without forcing taxpayers to subsidize their privileged existence? Until some team owner is willing to enact a profit sharing plan with the people of southern Nevada, I feel that it's perfectly fine not to have a major league sports team in Vegas.
Is this another case of people believing their own advertising?
There is a reason LA does not have a football team, people didn't go, neither do they here.
I wouldn't put much stock into that column -- Bickley's a pretty weak sports columnist, and he's pulling that particular "story" out of thin air.
Even if there were more to it, where the heck would the Coyotes play? There simply isn't an arena here of the size and quality to host an NHL team, and with our public and private finances in the toilet, no money available to build the kind of arena a pro squad wants.
No way Vegas beats out Hamilton for the Coyotes -- if they even end up leaving Phoenix.
There is a big difference between the 51's and the Wranglers and any pro sports franchise. I dont attend those games but i would support an NHL or NBA frnachise. Much different level of talent
Where will they move when Lake Mead dries up? How big is the arena at the Orleans? Maybe name them the De-Hydration?
Several Canadian cities that are proven hockey venues, with both NHL calibre arenas and corporate deep pockets are standing in line for an NHL franchise(Winnipeg - about 10,000 paying fans at last nights AHL game; Hamilton and even Saskatoon). Las Vegas is a long shot a best, but thats what the town was built on - so you never know!
firdst off the local minor teams are successful and provide pro sports that are affilaited to the big leagues in a town that doesn;t have anything else so hats off to them for taking a chance on us. Las Vegas has its role in pro sports and that is to feed the big leagues until someone mans up and puts a team here and we can actually support multi-million dollar payrolls and Justin Timberlake's luxury suite. Secondly anyone who wont go to 51s and Wranglers games because of a a downtick in talent must really enjoy watching sports greatest athletes in the darkness of their living room or in a bar while playing video poker. I'd rather be at the game cheering for the guys who wear las vegas on their uniforms. My kids love it, it doens't matter to them. It's a great environment and I defy you to not applaud when they win or a play that touches big league ability becasue it does happen at both.
Melissa -- if a friend had to inform you that the Orleans Arena is too small to support an NHL franchise, what are you doing posting here? You clearly have little understanding of sports.
And, no, people are not going to flock to Las Vegas to watch hockey. This may come as news to you but people come to Vegas to gamble, stay out all night and do the things they can't do back home. They're not going to come here to watch hockey. And if they come from "hockey-deprived centers," chances are there is a reason for that: hockey is a dying sport in the States. Or have you been paying attention to the ratings for NHL broadcasts for the past dozen years?
Hey TGinVegas,
I was crediting my buddy with relaying the info because I don't know league rules and haven't heard an official comment regarding the Orleans Arena from the NHL. I didn't doubt him one bit -- if I did, I wouldn't've relayed the suggestion.
As far as NHL-driven tourism, I actually have friends from hockey-deprived cities who travel to see a few games each year so I don't think it's far-fetched to suggest tourists would come here to see games. (And, yes, gamble while they're at it.) I wasn't trying to suggest a NHL game would be the sole reason for someone to come to town, but if they wanted to make a trip to go see one anyway, it'd be a no-brainer for a lot of people.
(Vegas or Tampa? Hmmm...)
Enjoy the playoffs and the awards next month. I know I will.